synodontis multipunctata

[hague1982]

Hi people new to the cat fish world and just bought 4 synodontis multipunctata for my tanganyikan biotype aquarium so far i have:

4 julidochromis regani
2 cylindricus
2 ocellatus
4 leptosoma

and obviously 4 cat fish i was wondering whether or not i would need to change anything in my tank as i have a fine gravel substrate and slate rock piles at one side and a shed load of shells at the other i have a fluval u4 internal filter and was wondering whether i need to upgrade the internal for a external also do i need to dig any caves for my cat fish or will they do it themselves?

[Viktor Jarikov]

Welcome, Hague1982! Unless you are dead sure, it may be advisable to make sure you did get multipunctata and not some other fish. If you choose to do so, photos would be needed. As for your questions, sorry, this is not much up my alley, just wait for others to chime in.

[sidguppy]

tanksize?

tanksize is everything

furthermore: Cyprichromis is a shoaling fish.
unless the tank is too small, best get 10-15 animals, ratio 1/1
if the tank can't hold a big shoal, it's better to not keep it.

if the only hideouts are slate on one side that will be the julidochromis turf

the shells, useless for synodontis, will be claimed by the occies.

the Syno's will be out in the open and that won't do: they need unclaimed hiding space of their own.

lastly: the Julidochromis regani is fairly agressive to speciesmembers once it's sexually mature.
if a pair will form, the other 2 are toast.
if a pair won't form, the biggest will kill all 3 smaller fish.

[hague1982]

Hi sorry yeah tank size is a 200ltr fluval Roma!

Would of bought more cyprichromis but i only managed to find 4 i went to blackpool,fleetwood,leyland,wigan,preston, and finally bolton where they had some in. got my synodontis multipunctata from aqua home. will get some more when i find them but there not cheap

Julies are running the show at the minute but they are only juvies at the minute and i know i need to ship the others out later on when they mature was going to take one of them back but i spent an hour trying to catch him and just gave up.
syno's don't seem to mind the julies and are quite happy swimming in there rocks was thinking of maybe digging some caves under the slate as i have plenty of room and the slates are huge what do you think?

[Birger]

syno's don't seem to mind the julies and are quite happy swimming in there rocks was thinking of maybe digging some caves under the slate as i have plenty of room and the slates are huge what do you think?

The synos will not mind the julies but As Sid said the julies will mind the synos as they will get more defensive as they get more mature or more comfortable. Definately make more caves but spread them out...if the caves are under the julidochromis territory they will still defend the space.

Birger

[hague1982]

looks like i'm going to have to buy some more slate then oh well thanks for the info guys

[Richard B]

looks like i'm going to have to buy some more slate then oh well thanks for the info guys

You could use old terracotta flowerpots, sections of plastic pipe & a variety of other items to form caves to ensure hiding places in the immediate term although not as aesthetic as natural rockwork

[hague1982]

they seem to hide anywhere they can and i've caught them even hiding in my shells which i thought was bizarre. they seem to be finding new places in my present rock work all the time as i hardly ever see them and struggle finding where there hiding, when they come out there beautiful fish to look at and add that something different to a tanganyikan set up. love them!!!

[Richard B]

will get some more when i find them but there not cheap

What sort of price were they for what size - PM me if you don't wanna post openly

[hague1982]

sorry lol i mean the leptosoma weren't cheap i got mine for £18.90 but should of paid double that as the woman at daves aquarium only put it through once so i got 4 fish for the price of 2 they were f1 english bred mind not wild, i've seen leptosoma's for £20 each in aqua home where i got my syno's. i got 4 synodontis multipunctata i'd say juvies as there only about an inch or two for £20 they where up for £5.50 each.

[hague1982]

heres a pic of one of my syno's took me a while enjoy!

[sidguppy]

this is a Synodontis of the lucipinnis/petricola group, not a multipunctata

the coloration of the dorsal vin and the pectoral fins is reversed

in multipunctata and most other Tanganyika species the front edge of the fins is black and the back edge is white

in lucipinnis, petricola etc it's reversed; they have a white edge up front and the black in the back.

if this fish is bigger than say 3 cm or so, it's very likely not even that, but some hybrid species.....

[Richard B]

I have seen multi hybrids with a white leading dorsal spine - they are becoming more common

This may well be one of those but as it is small i cannot say for certain.

[hague1982]

so what your saying is i've been had .

never the less all four of them are beautiful catfish and when i bought them they were labeled up as synodontis multipunctata.

i'll try get some more picks up but they are still juveniles so does that make any difference?

[MatsP]

I think what Richard says is that he's not sure. But yes, it's entirely possible that you have a hybrid fish.

--
Mats

[hague1982]

what are the disadvantages of a hybrid other than it may of been interbred or bred with a different secies of catfish? other than me paying 5quid for each one!

[Viktor Jarikov]

As I feared before (see the second post in this thread), the chances were great that you might have gotten yourself 4 hybrids instead of purebreds. They will not exhibit a 100% natural behavior as you were hoping for since your tank is a biotope. Maybe not important anyway. But what's important to the majority of the experts at this website is that hybrids are produced by cruelest and inhumane ways resulting in injuries or more likely deaths to the parents. Picture injecting hormones and the roe and milt being force-squeezed out of perhaps wild-caught mother-fish and father-fish and you will understand. It's nothing like two different breeds of dogs having some innocent fun... Often if not always, hybridization is done in the name of HIGHER PROFITS and has nothing to do with curiosity or any other lesser evil. Perhaps, you knew all that already.

I used to think hybrids were interesting but since I had learned how and WHY they were made I have been becoming more and more anti-hybrid.

Still, there are naturally occurring hybrids but these are known and rare.

[Richard B]

Exactly how big are they? The head doesn't look quite right for either lucipinnis or petricola & for only a fiver a pop you won't get either at a retailer.

I'm leaning more towards hybrid by the hour. A small consolation is that i've seen these hybrids sold for nearly £30 a go (labelled as genuine multis)

[hague1982]

i called in aqua home today and he's just got some more syno's multipunctatus but twice the size i's say about 3 inch and they look exactly the same but he's priced them at £12, i questioned him about the syno's (not being shy and all) and his reply was he priced them differently because of there size which i thought fair enough seeing as they where 3inch and mine are 1 1/2" i then began swinging towards whether or not they where hybrids and he insisted they were not and that they where just juveniles.

so i'm just going to take it as a bargain and keep you all posted each month on there growth and update you all with pictures watch this space!!! least then we can come to some sort of conclusion.

[Richard B]

whether or not they where hybrids and he insisted they were not and that they where just juveniles. .

Baby/juvie multis still have a black dorsal spine.

least then we can come to some sort of conclusion.

There is a conclusion & that they are NOT multis. They are either hybrids (which i think they are), petricola (which cost lots of money - maybe £15 for that size if you can get T/B from NHA, much more if W/C) or they are lucipinnis (which cost approx £7 each from private breeders, more in retailers).

Looks, cost & genuine sp availability point to hybrid i'm afraid

[hague1982]

whether or not they where hybrids and he insisted they were not and that they where just juveniles. .

Baby/juvie multis still have a black dorsal spine.

least then we can come to some sort of conclusion.

There is a conclusion & that they are NOT multis. They are either hybrids (which i think they are), petricola (which cost lots of money - maybe £15 for that size if you can get T/B from NHA, much more if W/C) or they are lucipinnis (which cost approx £7 each from private breeders, more in retailers).

arse biscuits!!!!! oh well hybrids it is then but never the less they are beautiful i'll call them syno-hybrid-multi-lucip-petricolas then least then i've pretty much covered every angle

Looks, cost & genuine sp availability point to hybrid i'm afraid

[hague1982]

syno or hybrid?

syno or hybrid?

syno or hybrid?

[hague1982]

syno or hybrid?

syno or hybrid?

[MatsP]

Your title of "Syno or hybrid?" is technically incorrect. The GENUS of Synodontis is in both parents, whether they are the same species or not is another matter. My feeling, as a complete novice on the targer species, is that they are hybrids.

--
Mats

[hague1982]

SORRY MULTIPUNCTATA OR HYBRID? or multipunctatus before i get corrected again lmao

[sidguppy]

it's definitely a hybrid, but I don't think there's multipunctata in its ancestry.

the entire bodyshape is elongated,
small eyes
long nose
white frontal edges on all large fins

it's synodontis lucipinnis x another species.

the lucipinnis is widely available and has been bred in huge numbers; the Hybrid Mafia will have no trouble getting those for their nefarious schemes.

[hague1982]

have to agree with you there it does look alot like this synodontis lucipinnis:

synodontis lucipinnis pic off internet

my syno what i thought was a multipunctata or what it was labeled up as!!!!! swines

[Scleropages]

it's synodontis lucipinnis x another species.

I concur. It can almost pass for 100% lucipinnis, but the spots are too big and too few.

[Scleropages]

Maybe lucipinnis x decora

[MatsP]

Just to point out that the "Swines" in this case is probably NOT the shop. They are just buying in fish labeled as S. multipuncata (or more likely the older name of S. multipunctatus). These fish are good enough fakes to fool anyone but a real syno expert (like Sidguppy, Richard B, Birger, and several others on this forum). I bet if you posted pictures on a generic fish-forum, rather than a catfish specialist forum, it's not at all certain that they would be identified as "hybrids". And fish-shops/importers will not always have the detail knowledge of the fish they are selling in all areas - sure, a good catfish shop should know the difference, and I've seen it labeled correctly.

--
Mats