Is S. Eupterus compatable with S. sp Hybrid No. 5 ?

[jodilynn]

Upon a fairly exhaustive search for Synodontis species for sale around my very rural part of the country, the only one I could come up with, other than S. Eupterus (of which I already own a magnificent individual), is apparently S. sp Hybrid No. 5.

Unsure of the identification, this individual seems darker and is lacking the white edges on the fins, but appearances can change dramatically.

I am not proud that I bought a hybrid, especially considering what I have read, but there is literally no other species available for purchase in my neck of the woods.

"Bullet" is under an inch long at the moment, so obviously he is going to spend quite some time growing out in my 10 gallon community tank. Despite being so tiny, it fends off my much bigger C. Aeneus and C. Melini at feeding time. Spends a good deal of time darting about the tank. Currently happily residing in the cave once occupied by "my Leo". "Leo", my Featherfin, is currently 4.5 inches long (including tail) but he only took about 6 months to get that big.

When I had asked about this particular fish in one of my other threads, Vicktor said one of it's parents was likely S. Decora, and from what I have read of that species and S. Eupterus , they seem like fairly peaceful, though large, fish.

SO my point is once they are of similar size, will they be able to peacefully coexist in my 55 gallon tank? I was hoping someone out there had kept these two species together and could tell me of their experience. On paper, it sounds okay!

THANKS

[Viktor Jarikov]

It appears to be a gamble with the euptera - many report fine keeping but there exist reports of problems, from small to big. Take a look please through the threads I linked here: http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =+eupterus

Another good thread: http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... t=+euptera

In general, 2 is not a recommended number even for many shoaling fish, less so for solitary, territorial fishes like euptera. It depends how mildly or viciously they will enforce the pecking order that they will establish initially. I tend to think it should work but I'd not be surprised if problems continue after initial introduction.

[jodilynn]

There seems to be a lot of varying opinions. So much for all my reading...

"Leo" never touched any of the smaller fish in the community tank. And as far as the Kubotai is concerned, Leo is very gentle with it, even though the loach is constantly following it around, shoving it's way into "their" cave, sneaking under the catfish and taking it's food, weaseling it's way into the floating log, I personally would have killed it by now. But I've noticed Leo just casually block the entrances to cave with his big body, or swim away if it gets to be too much.

It only took the Featherfin about 4 months, now that I think about it, to reach 4.5 inches. It was easily that big in December (but was a bit bigger when I bought it). Is there any opinion about holding off until the hybrid gets bigger and introducing the two fish together? I'm in no hurry to put them in the big tank. Is it better to perhaps add a third Syno (if I could find one)so it's not a "one on one" thing all the time?

[jodilynn]

Also, this is going to be a community tank, with various species being kept, plecos, corys, loaches, angels, gouramis, tetras, danios, etc.

[Viktor Jarikov]

... I personally would have killed it by now...

Is there any opinion about holding off until the hybrid gets bigger and introducing the two fish together? I'm in no hurry to put them in the big tank.

I'd like to hear from others especially not having kept small groups of synos myself, only very large and diverse groups... but yes, under 1" is a tender size/age. I'd wait til he is at least Leo's half size.

Is it better to perhaps add a third Syno (if I could find one)so it's not a "one on one" thing all the time?

Same sentiment as above... but yes, my weak suggestion is "more is less" to an extent, that is more synos - less potential inter-syno problems.

[jodilynn]

That was my thought process as well, perhaps three would be a better number so that way the hate is spread around .

I don't know. Leo just seems very, very laid back for his size. I just can't see him being the terror of the tank. Not after living with "Houdini" most of his life (so named because on the first day I had him, he swam into the external filter, knocked the lid off, jumped 3 feet down to the floor, very narrowly escaped being a cat treat, I picked him up and dashed to the sink with his limp body that was covered with doghair and crumbs because I hadn't swept yet, rinsed him under water that I didn't realize was scalding hot, threw his ass back in the tank...and obviously he still here! )

I saw the pictures of your tanks...WOW! Are there a species you would recommend trying to introduce with the two I already have (and keeping in mind I'm trying to stay with large community fish...I really don't like African cichlids)?

Not that I'd actually be able to get any other species at the rate I'm going ...

[racoll]

And as far as the Kubotai is concerned, Leo is very gentle with it, even though the loach is constantly following it around, shoving it's way into "their" cave, sneaking under the catfish and taking it's food, weaseling it's way into the floating log, I personally would have killed it by now. But I've noticed Leo just casually block the entrances to cave with his big body, or swim away if it gets to be too much.

If you want to keep Botia kubotai correctly, you will need to keep them in a group, as they are a very social fish. This explains its "strange" behaviour with regard to your syno.

More info at seriouslyfish.com/species/botia-kubotai/. Look at the "Behaviour and Compatibility" section in particular.

[jodilynn]

Thankyou, I am aware of that issue with the loach, and I will be correcting that problem when I get the bigger tank going. The LFS didn't tell me that when I purchased him. It seems to happen a lot unfortunately.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Are there a species you would recommend trying to introduce with the two I already have (and keeping in mind I'm trying to stay with large community fish...I really don't like African cichlids)?

Tell us more, please, so that we are clear and we have all the pertinent info in one place. Tank size, set up, existing/planned tankmates, etc.

[Richard B]

Aggression with synos increases as they grow & age (if they are a species that can become quarrelsome).

if you are looking to add a third individual then the following species would prove suitable:
Notata, Pleurops, Ocellifer, Nigrita, Decora, greshoffi, schoutedeni, nummifer, waterloti, robbiana or another hybrid type.

Ones to avoid: Congica, alberti, acanthomias, angelica, nigriventris, contracta, flavitaeniata, any rift lake species, robertsi.

[jodilynn]

55 gallon

undergravel filter with two powerheads, as well as a Quietflow outside filter (which the guy at the LFS said was a really good filter and he actually felt it was all the tank needed). Am saving up for a Fluval to add as well

dark substrate planned, one of those "rock" 3D backgrounds, several caves and driftwood, maybe a fake Mango root, plastic plants

So far, the only "for sure" inhabitants
S. Eupterus
S. sp_hybrid No 5
Botia Kobotai (have one, may add 3-4 more)
One robust albino Bristlenose

I have two Corys, C Aeneus and C Melini, and a Brochis that will be going in as well. I would like them to get a bit bigger first.

My son likes Angelfish. I would like some schooling fish, maybe some Lemon Tetras and/or Giant Danios, some Pearl Gouramis, maybe a couple of T Bar or Clown Barbs, and I am quite enthralled with perhaps obataining some Garra species as well.

Just some thoughts.

I would prefer a "community" atmosphere, I suppose these would be considered "semi-agressive" fish (angels or gouramis), certainly ones that would get big enough not to be considered a snack.

[jodilynn]

Ones to avoid: Congica, alberti, acanthomias, angelica, nigriventris, contracta, flavitaeniata, any rift lake species, robertsi.

Thank you very much for taking the time to post that. I hit four pet stores today, and only found two Rift Lake species and Angelica.

They had a couple hybrids but they didn't impress me.

[Viktor Jarikov]

... My son likes Angelfish. I would like some schooling fish, maybe some Lemon Tetras and/or Giant Danios, some Pearl Gouramis, maybe a couple of T Bar or Clown Barbs, and I am quite enthralled with perhaps obataining some Garra species as well.

None of these I kept. Cautiously I'd say it sounds ok if the tetras and the danios cannot fit in the catfish mouth. Barbs with angels - I am not sure as barbs are often fin/filament nippers.

What kind of water will the tank have? Hard or soft, pH? Are you aiming at keeping the stock mostly from the same geographic area or is this irrelevant to you?

[jodilynn]

None of these I kept. Cautiously I'd say it sounds ok if the tetras and the danios cannot fit in the catfish mouth. Barbs with angels - I am not sure as barbs are often fin/filament nippers.

The danios get about 4 inches long and the tetras are deep-bodied and around two inches long. I don't seem to remember my Clown Barbs being problematic. Tiger Barbs are horrible!

What kind of water will the tank have? Hard or soft, pH? Are you aiming at keeping the stock mostly from the same geographic area or is this irrelevant to you?

Just tested my water in all 4 tanks:
No nitrate/nitrite
No chlorine (well water)
Total Hardness 75 ppm (soft)
Total Alkalinity 300 ppm (high)
pH 8.4 (alkaline)

As far as keeping stock from the same region, I really do not have a preference. I like all kinds of fish, and I know the recent trend has been to keep fish from the same region, but that really isn't something I am striving for.

[jodilynn]

This little fella(or gal) behaves very differrently from my Eupterus. It is very active all day, even moreso than my Corys! If I saw "Leo" a few times a month, even when he was small, that was a lot. When this one does rest it seems to enjoy the company of my Rubbermouth pleco, who is equally small. Has NO prblem eating, big full belly, actually went underneath the mouth of my BN and was trying to eat the piece of pellet the Bristlenose was munching on !

I'm actually more worried about Leo, as this little fish is fierce! I think it could kick Leo's butt ...well if it had a butt...

Body a deep chocolate brown, with large black spots and some irregular blotches, fins are clear with dark spots arranged in a loosely verticle pattern.

[jodilynn]

I believe this is the fish I have, it is believed to be a hybrid called "the Tiger Synodontis (often referring to a possible hybrid of S. euptera and S. multipunctata) which is pictured above."

I thought "tigers" were striped, not spotted...

Should have named this fish "Hoover", as it comes out a dusk when the other fish get their evening feeding, assumes the upside down position and basically inhales all the food I put in ! At this rate he'll be at four inches in a couple months.

[Viktor Jarikov]

I don't have the breadth of knowledge to list some fish which would be ok at such a high pH of 8.4. Most fish adapt ok to a pH between 6 and 8. 8.4 is significantly outside of this range. You need better help on this one than I can provide.

You might wanna find out what geographic areas have such an alkaline water and what fish live in them. For instance, rift Lakes of Africa are about that alkaline but the water is also hard, if I am not mistaken.

Adjusting pH on an ongoing basis is tough to accomplish - a lot of monitoring and ample room for errors, AFAIK.

[jodilynn]

I do try to mix purified "city water" with the well water, that water is on the acidic side so I try to do half and half when I can, I also try to add Mardel's PH Down every couple weeks...I don't know, I just hate "messing" with things too much.

My fish (knock on wood) seem to be doing well, I recently lost a zebra danio that I had for at LEAST 5 years. They all seem healthy, fins up, great color, eat well, and I have all kinds of fish, tetras, angels, gouramis, danios, platies, bettas, corys, plecos, my loach, my synos, and I have to think that if there was really a severe problem they'd be dying in months, not after several years.

Test strips are old. Maybe they're not reading correctly.

[Viktor Jarikov]

I'd not rely even on fresh strips. I use and recommend this http://www.petsolutions.com/C/Aquarium- ... r-Kit.aspx