Which Auchenipterids are being kept by PC members?

CFC · Post by **CFC** » 20 Oct 2007, 10:03

racoll wrote:CFC, any luck with that cheap Asterophysus?

Was a Trachycorystes but no no luck, everytime i got to the payment section it told me there was an error and sent me back to the main page.

grokefish · Post by **grokefish** » 20 Oct 2007, 16:54

Is that 'pay in' or 'pain'?
Sounds like both to me.
Matt

CFC · Post by **CFC** » 21 Oct 2007, 16:39

lol, was actually meant to be "main" page, i dont know how i managed to put a p instead of an m .

grokefish · Post by **grokefish** » 27 Oct 2007, 16:19

See Trachycorystes mighty killer of the Amazon! see how he eats all that will fit in his mouth! Fishies beware!

Click here to watch The-grokefish-natural-born-killer

Or maybe not......

Matt

Richard B · Post by **Richard B** » 28 Oct 2007, 09:03

Nice one Matt!

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 04 Nov 2007, 09:19

While waiting on the Peruvian fishes to be ordered - luckily I'm a very patient person (not) - I decided it would be wise to avoid LFS-ses as much as possible as my space is already limited (see below).
We did some shops last week (Nijmegen, Amersfoort), but I came home with no fishes. That was good.
However, I also stopped checking a Dutch wholesaler's list at my own LFS and of course I got "punished" for doing so.
On it was Tatia sp. Peru, small which could be anything, but I couldn't resist so I ordered some.

With regard to the limited space:
If anyone is interested in (8 specimens) and/or (6 specimens) AND is willing to pick them up in Eindhoven, pls contact me.
I know I sort of promised them to Kattes, but I've spoken to him and he doesn't mind as he still doesn't know if he's coming to the Netherlands.
I prefer a good home to the money, so I'm asking 3 euros per fish (mature and very healthy).

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 08 Nov 2007, 15:24

Marc van Arc wrote:On it was Tatia sp. Peru, small which could be anything, but I couldn't resist so I ordered some.

The order arrived today at the LFS, but NO Tatias. Not available for some reason.....

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 08 Nov 2007, 16:08

But to make up for that just got the Peruvian list. Lots of new common names
(Tatia aligator?!) and prices.....
Man, my list is going to be so small you can hardly see it anymore

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 09 Nov 2007, 19:55

Okay, so this thing is on the road.
Had to restrict myself - and got help doing so from the LFS owner who wanted to take it easy for this first order.
The list is still very confusing in all respects, especially names and amounts per box. I'm quite sure they are mixing up things over there.
New names that I need to find out:

Novia alligator
Novia amazonas
Novia sp.(:?)
Novia stripped (probably striped, but not T. taeniatus for that already has a Peruvian common name)

Just putting them here so I won't forget

.

daniel60 · Post by **daniel60** » 17 Nov 2007, 13:39

Marc van Arc wrote:The scientific belief still is that Centromochlins (Centromochlus, Tatia and Glanidium) don't have internal fertilization.
Several of us amateurs think they do.
What we need is some good proof.
The question is as follows:
- Who has observed a mating,
- separated the female immediately afterwards in a non-Centromochlinae environment
- and got fertile eggs?
This scenario counts me out, for I have never separated gravid females (so far).
Anyone??

After witnessing a Tatia spawning today, it's harder to believe in internal fertilization. But, since I haven't separated a female, the evidence is circumstantial. Unfortunately, I had to mind the result of two spawnings of my own most of the time.
This is what I saw:
1. A extremely ripe female crusing on the bottom, apparently looking for a place to lay her eggs. Two males followed her closely.
2 (15 minutes later). The female and one of the males lying close together in some java fern.
3. (30 minutes later). Eggs in the java fern, on the exactly same spot.
My mission still is to catch a ripe female, but it's not the easiest thing to do in a 250 g tank with lots of driftwood.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 17 Nov 2007, 14:17

daniel60 wrote:After witnessing a Tatia spawning today, it's harder to believe in internal fertilization. But, since I haven't separated a female, the evidence is circumstantial. Unfortunately, I had to mind the result of two spawnings of my own most of the time.
This is what I saw:
1. A extremely ripe female crusing on the bottom, apparently looking for a place to lay her eggs. Two males followed her closely.
2 (15 minutes later). The female and one of the males lying close together in some java fern.
3. (30 minutes later). Eggs in the java fern, on the exactly same spot.

Thanks for this observation Daniel. I'm really pleased that you've taken the time to witness this and share it.
The actual question is that scientists believe that the genital papilla of male Centromochlins is unfit to enter the female's body - unlike that of other Auchenipterids.

daniel60 wrote: My mission still is to catch a ripe female, but it's not the easiest thing to do in a 250 g tank with lots of driftwood.

I wish I could say the same, but due to a lack of space I have no possibilities to do so. On the contrary: I've just finished turning my tank upside down in order to catch some fishes I had to say goodbye to because I'm expecting some new Auchenipterids shortly.
Among these were 4 Auchenipterichthys coracoideus (which reduced the group to 8 specimens), all Batrochoglanis raninus and the last of 5 fin nipping Botia almorhae

.

daniel60 · Post by **daniel60** » 19 Nov 2007, 10:07

Marc van Arc wrote:Thanks for this observation Daniel. I'm really pleased that you've taken the time to witness this and share it.
The actual question is that scientists believe that the genital papilla of male Centromochlins is unfit to enter the female's body - unlike that of other Auchenipterids.

Starting today, this young female will spend some weeks in solitary confinement. She was caught crusing the tank, looking for a place to lay her eggs (I hope).

Marc van Arc wrote:I wish I could say the same, but due to a lack of space I have no possibilities to do so. On the contrary: I've just finished turning my tank upside down in order to catch some fishes I had to say goodbye to because I'm expecting some new Auchenipterids shortly.

There is always a lack of space. And now I hear Trachycorystes is coming to Sweden...

daniel60 · Post by **daniel60** » 20 Nov 2007, 10:05

Starting today, this young female will spend some weeks in solitary confinement.

"Some weeks" turned out to be "a few hours".
Tonight I discovered eggs and a much slimmer female. No other fish was in the tank. Now we just have to wait for the eggs to wag their little tails...

Bas Pels · Post by **Bas Pels** » 20 Nov 2007, 11:11

Nice timing.

Solitude is not nice for the fishes, but sometimes one has to. If it takes a short time, the better.

Letás hope for a nice clear result - 100 % hatching

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 20 Nov 2007, 16:08

daniel60 wrote:Now we just have to wait for the eggs to wag their little tails...

I couldn't agree more. Very nice job sofar btw.

grokefish · Post by **grokefish** » 20 Nov 2007, 17:16

Exciting stuff.
Matt

daniel60 · Post by **daniel60** » 21 Nov 2007, 13:11

No doubt about it - the eggs are fertile.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 21 Nov 2007, 13:25

That is great news indeed. I will notify Dr. Ferraris.
Very well done, Daniel-san

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 21 Nov 2007, 13:38

To balance the above, there's some bad news too.
Did Peru make it? Well almost, the fishes are due this evening. Alas minus one-third of the boxes, which - of course - included all Banjos and Novias.
The only interesting fishes that will arrive are some Otos, which I didn't even order for myself.....(but that'll make another PC member happy - hopefully).
I knew "cleaning out" the tank beforehand wasn't such a good idea and I also knew from experience that lots of fishes are excluded from shipments for one reason or another.
Oh well, maybe next time. But to be honest, I'm slightly disappointed at the moment.

@ Steve: no, I don't know yet which species Novia alligator is, but hopefully I'm able to tell you next time.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 21 Nov 2007, 13:43

Marc van Arc wrote:I knew "cleaning out" the tank beforehand wasn't such a good idea and I also knew from experience that lots of fishes are excluded from shipments for one reason or another.

Sorry that they didn't get there... Well, at least you have the space WHEN they DO arrive, right?

--
Mats

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 23 Nov 2007, 22:39

Marc van Arc wrote:I knew "cleaning out" the tank beforehand wasn't such a good idea

Well, it was good for something after all. Today I saw one of the Trachelyopterus sp. 3, which was in a deplorable state. Apparently the fish had been in a piece of wood for a long time without being able to get out. No whiskers, very skinny and tumbling over while trying to eat. Let's hope it will survive.
For obvious reasons it's very difficult to do a head count with Auchenipterids.
But do be aware when redecorating and/or replacing pieces of wood.
Due to this very mistake I lost a Trachelyopterichthys taeniatus some 20 years back, so I should have known better...

grokefish · Post by **grokefish** » 23 Nov 2007, 23:14

Yes keeping a head count on woodcats is the bane of my life and most other catfish for that matter.
On the one hand you want to know that they are all doing ok and on the other you don't want to disturb them.
Whilst fishing out a pair of corydoras concolor from my mother in laws tank we decided to check up on her collection of small loricaridae, the bad news was that there was only one peckoltia vittata remaining from a nice collection of various peckoltia and hypancistrus the good news was that her spotted dora was massive.
what happens to the bodies? you would have thought that they would foul the tank, but no, everything is great in her tank. By the way I am very jealous of her , she does next to no maintenance and all her fish are in tip top condition, I think the secret is the plants she keeps in there, its a type of amazon sword that i cant identify which grows at an astronomical rate and I have yet to find a fish that will eat it, maybe one of you guys could ID it if I get a picture. This collection of loricarids was really old and most likely died of old age. maybe there are a whole load of shallow graves in there.

Anyway Daniel how are things going with the fry?
What are the parameters in your tank?
Did you do anything special or is this a regular occurance?
Matt

daniel60 · Post by **daniel60** » 23 Nov 2007, 23:43

grokefish wrote:Anyway Daniel how are things going with the fry?
What are the parameters in your tank?
Did you do anything special or is this a regular occurance?
Matt

Not very well, I'm afraid.
Many have fungussed, but some hatching fry are still alive. This has never happened before. The eggs seemed to have a thinner cover - maybe the female was stressed and laid the eggs prematurely.
I use plain Swedish tap water, which is quite soft. Thanks to a lot of wood (and sometimes aldercones) in the tank the pH is 6,5.
Don't know why, but my T. intermedia keeps spawning over and over again. Many who bought my youngsters have now found eggs. I wish the other woodcats was as unproblematic.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 24 Nov 2007, 13:08

To end this remarkable No-Auchenipterid-week in style, the latest wholesaler's stocklist does no longer contain Tatia sp. Peru.
Hurray

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 25 Nov 2007, 10:47

Marc van Arc wrote: Today I saw one of the Trachelyopterus sp. 3, which was in a deplorable state.

And here it is. The fact that can be seen eating during daytime says enough. But on the other hand, that's the good news: it eats and is able to keep the food in, contrary to the above mentioned T. taeniatus, which was reduced to a swimming skull with an attached ribbon.
So I've little doubt this one will make it back to a healthy specimen.

grokefish · Post by **grokefish** » 25 Nov 2007, 17:45

Goodstuff
Matt

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 30 Nov 2007, 18:59

With regard to the internal fertilization of Tatia intermedia mentioned above, here's the reply of Dr.Ferraris which I received today:

Your information is quite interesting. It seems that females of Tatia intermedia, at least, have the ability of depositing eggs immediately following courtship or hold until some more appropriate time and/or place. This certainly suggests that the sperm are held by the female. Whether they are deposited inside of the female's genital opening or held at or near that opening needs to be looked at, as well as whether the eggs are fertilized internally or not. I don't know of anyone who is likely to be interested in examining specimens to find the anatomical answers to these questions, but I now have reason to bring up the question to people whom I talk with. Then, of course, we would need to find some very plump female Tatias that might be good candidates for examination.
I hope you will keep me informed of any additional observations on this behavior.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 01 Dec 2007, 17:48

I was able to add at least one new species to the Auchenipterid collection.
Although they only had one specimen in Poortugaal, I've finally found Tatia sp. Peru. Which is not - as I supposed - Tatia brunnea.
I'm quite convinced that it is .
Especially the white markings on its back give it away (pic 3).
The pictures are poor but nevertheless they give a fair impression.
To be honest: it looks like the first picture in the Catelog. The other 2 pictures are not the same species imho.
I also brought along 4 Trachelyopterus sp., which may easily turn out to be T. galeatus.
However, these are darker and more stretched than the specimens I already have. The pictures of Trachelyopterus are better imo.
Don't forget that both species were a little stressed and thus paler than usual.

Glanidium

Trachelyopterus

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 03 Dec 2007, 19:09

Here's another one of the Glanidium. Same pose (surprised, anyone?

) but with flash.
Btw: on the pictures these fish look large, at least imo.
Actual length for the Glanidium is about 3 cms; the Trachelyopterus are between 4,5 and 5 cms.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 03 Dec 2007, 19:24

Marc van Arc wrote: So I've little doubt this one will make it back to a healthy specimen.

These pictures were taken yesterday. You can see that the fish has improved a lot. It is definitely more fleshy. No wonder, for it is truly enjoying its freedom and thus the first to arrive at the food.