PlanetCatfish.com

Can I also remind folks that posting verbal abuse will get you straight ban on this fourm. Also, warnings will likely be issued for attempting to influence people into avoiding posting (openly or via pm) and posting off-topic is also frowned upon with repeat offenders being warned.

This thread in itself has already seen two posters banned and a warning issued - we don't need that to increase.

This is an emotive subject with very divided opinions. Happy for the discussion to take place, but if you can't do it civilly, do it somewhere else please.

Jools

cool !
who got banned?

Uncle.Ned wrote:cool !
who got banned?

It's not cool at all, it's a real drain on everyone's time and I don't appreciate the bellicism. It also detracts from the argument and it is off topic.

Jools

I apologize.
I'm being silly and making light of it. You obviously take it seriously.

(I put Zebra pleco comments in different post.)

Thanks Saul Buddy,
For the fair and reasonable prices, the real crime is what some folks charge for the L-046. I am glad I bought a fair amount of the L-046 like many others have. I say this because my cave sales have increased greatly. The other crime is taking all the heat in a for sale section this is not right. I really do not spend much time in this forum and I would wonder if all the negativity is just some L-046 seller that is upset your selling so cheap and ruining his business lol. I really doubt that, but you never know do we. Just like we will never know where your L-046 come from. I just want to say Thank You for being such an honest seller in a world where greed seems to be the common agenda.
Zcliff aka Larry
#1 Cave & Fry Saver sales

zcliff wrote:The other crime is taking all the heat in a for sale section this is not right.

I wouldn't call it a crime, to be clear, if you're going to use my forum (for free, to make profit) then I set the rules - and the rules are that if any member wishes to discuss items for sale, they should do so in that topic and not off topic. If you bought some fish from someone and they were in very poor condition on arrival would you not wish to comment? If someone was selling fish that they said were growing only to "the size of the tank you keep them in", would you not also wish to comment. So, for the same reasons, I don't see any issue in the civil discussion of animals being sold that were illegally exported from their country of origin.

That any other post selling zebras hasn't been posted to in such a manner isn't something I can control but be very aware that I would treat them exactly the same as any other forum member - I don't particularly appreciate the insinuation, albeit in jest, otherwise.

Jools

zcliff wrote:Just like we will never know where your L-046 come from.

What do you mean? There are only two options:
1. They are wild-caught, from Brazil and was smuggled out. These fish only live in one place, and it's illegal to export them from there!
2. Saul is lying, they are not wild-caught at all, but captive bred. [Note I'm not saying this, I'm just inferring the only other possibility of what you are saying].

--
Mats

Uncle.Ned wrote:I apologize.
I'm being silly and making light of it. You obviously take it seriously.

No worries, but, yes, I do take banning someone seriously. It's not done lightly...

Jools

Asking a question that will open a whole can of worms:

I liked Saul's prices on the zebra plecos.

I paid 200 a pop for 5 on an online auction and to find out that 1 out of the 5 is a bulldog a couple year ago and they were captive bred with a friends encouragement stating it was the best investment. They were about 1'' long at that time. Now with the prices today, wildcaught or not- I think its great that people are coming to their senses if I didn't have a friend in my ear telling me that this is the best investment, I would have gotten a couple if I didn't already have some on hand.


I just wish that more and more sellers would do that lower the prices and more people can be able to breed them in turn have it more available in the market for everybody to enjoy. That will make some smugglers lose their competitive edge.


My logic reasoning: if its "black market pleco" why is it so cheap the norm "black market goods" are high due to the risk people get when dealing with them? I think some brazilian gov't officials are actually breeding/farming them in the aquaculture pools off the river in turn giving them to smugglers at a lower price making them think they're the wild caughts hence the reason so the official does not get in "trouble" and if they're caught they get fined, so the money goes back to them threefold.....and the wild stock is left unmolested for generations to come.....a conspiracy theory of mine, nothing more- nothing less.

Janne (Ekström) is currently in Brazil as an expert, trying to help the Brazilians to breed plecos. I doubt very much that they currently are breeding these fish in any large scale.

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Mats

Hi proteus,

I'll tell you something is very fishy going on.
There are many larger companies selling wild some selling "F1" L46 in North America.
Their prices were dropping to $180 each early this year.
Very suddenly, one large importer has lowered their price from US$160 in lots of six to "F1" L46 at US$130 in lots of six.
Not Saul.
Who is "breeding" and selling them cheap enough a reseller can offer them for $130?
Maybe the recession conspires to drive the prices down and supply up for both wild and "F1's"?

People are being much, much more conservative about buying any fancy plecos costing more than $20 this year compared to last year.
I have some personal experience with this and believe me, I ain't importing wild Hypancistrus spp and Peckoltia spp to Clarkston, WA.
Population approximately 8000. 7337 in 2000 Census. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarkston,_Washington

Only if I waited it out.......

my L46s are so "slow" only at just 2'' mark.

At 2" your Zebras should begin growing a little faster than it took them to grow from ~1" to 2".

Is this still available? I don't see any update.

Regards,
George
Pret travaux

Saul If I had the spare cash right now I would be all over these.

Gordon C. Snelling wrote:Saul If I had the spare cash right now I would be all over these.

Can you refrain from trivial posts please. This could have easily been covered in a PM.

This could be viewed as a well timed post to put the topic back on the front page (it disappeared only seven hours before this post was made...).

PM me please if you feel the need to reply, any more trivial posts in here and I will lock this topic.

Jools

Very suddenly, one large importer has lowered their price from US$160 in lots of six to "F1" L46 at US$130 in lots of six.

I would be more inclined to think that all the hoopla on various forums dealing with the ethics of selling newly caught wilds combined with the economic down turn and the recent spate of wilds being imprted has caused the fish to be relabled. I would bet they are wilds being sold as F1s?

No matter who is reselling zebras, unless they are breeding them, they have layed out a bunch of cash for the fish. They are spending time and money keeping the fish alive and healthy pending their being sold. And the longer this has to be done, the lower the profits will be. Plus there is always the risk of any number of "tank" disasters which could resilt in fish deaths. When it comes to recovering ones investment, many folks will do or say whatever it takes.

Given the numbers of zebras being offered and the factors connected to breeding and raising fry, the odds they are anything but illegally caught wild fish are extremely small, imo.

Hi twotankamin,

Of course mine was a rhetorical question. All of these much less expensive Zebras on the market are not tank raised; they are wild.
The only difference is some companies are honestly labeling their stock as wild caught and others are mislabeling their fish as "F1's" in a transparent ploy to appear to be above the fray. Hobbyist who decide on the basis of the mislabeling are in denial or realize they are actually buying wild fish.

You, of all people know, it is impossible to raise Zebras, cover your costs and still sell them at $60 each so a reseller can mark them up to $130 each. It probably costs you about $130 to raise each Zebra if you value your time and expenses fairly.

I have been looking into zebras for the last six months. They are beautiful fish that I would love to breed. Finding them on the other hand seems to be nearly impossible. I just purchased a couple commercial grade tank setups that are plumbed and ready to go. I've been breeding German blue rams for a while now. Bringing more of these tank raised plecos to the states would help limit importing and help preserve this beautiful fish

Topic locked as it is illegal to sell w/c zebras in the USA.

Jools