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Hello all, first post here, I hope I havent posted in the wrong section!

I would like to find a catfish that would be happy and comfortable in the tank I am setting up. Here are the specs:

Gallons: 40g or 150L (90cm x 30cm footprint)
Well planted
Some driftwood
Strong tannin presence

African Butterfly
Amazon Leaf Fish
Leopard Ctenopoma

I would really enjoy keeping a Syno cat, as I have never done so before. I've never kept Africans, and I thought all Synos came from Lake Tang. However, I recently found out that some do come from the rivers of west Africa. I would like to try keeping one of these species.

If no Synos are possible, I will likely end up with Corydoras and Loricariidae.

The vast majority of synod come from places OTHER then tanganyika!

A small group would go well in this tank - maybe flavitaeniata or Alberti or congica or perhaps tell us what you fancy & we can advise

I would just like to add that the Monocirrhus polyacanthus (Amazon leaf fish)probably would not compete well with the other fish listed, other than that would be a great tank.

As far as synos check and see what is available to you and stay away from the bigger species(stay under 5-6 inches), a group of a smaller species would be better in this tank than one big syno.

Birger

I'm very worried about the Amazon Leaf Fish addition. Still not 100% sold on adding one later. I may change my mind on this and use the bioload on a different fish.

I guess I will need to scour the profile section. Thanks a lot for the suggestions so far and the advice. I will post some species I find interesting soon.

I like the one's mentioned a lot! Beautiful cats!

I also really liked Syno. koensis but it seems it may not be a cat that's often kept.

Syno. schoutedeni are also very interesting looking.

Syno. ocellifer is a very nice fish as well, but I worry about it long term.

I guess I should point this out - will Syno's generally be happy in aquariums with little current? Also, will a small, smooth pebble substrate with lots of mopani be something they enjoy?

I guess I should point this out - will Syno's generally be happy in aquariums with little current? Also, will a small, smooth pebble substrate with lots of mopani be something they enjoy?

Many synos would be okay in this, another you may like is , you could keep a small group of these in this tank and they would be quite happy and are often available. These are often confused with Synodontis eupterus which often also get called upside down catfish but end up much bigger.

You have to be aware there are a lot of hybrid synos being produced lately...most of these are produced from fish that are on the larger size than what would work for you so care in choosing is crucial.

Birger

I have access to these at my LFS. What characteristics should I look for to distinguish the two?

I have access to these at my LFS. What characteristics should I look for to distinguish the two?

Which two do you mean, the two synos I mentioned or hybrids compared to other synos?

Birger

We have Synos labelled Upside Down Cats. Anything i should look for to make sure i am getting the smaller species?

S. nigriventris is usually very 'mottled' in coloration. Depending on the region they are from, the brown 'spots' are somewhat 'smeared' over the base cream color. And the belly is always a dark color.
S. eupterus (when it is young) has a reticulated pattern. The lines and spots are very distinct from the base color which is usually a light cream color. Also, after they grow a few inches, the dorsal fin starts to elongate. Compare them in the cat-elog and read everything you can get your hands on before purchasing.
I might suggest Mochokiella paynei or S. aterrima also (if you can find them).
Please keep in mind that 150 liters is small for Synodontis so the adult size Birger suggested is key.
I've never kept Monocirrhus polyacanthus but from what I hear it very difficult to get them to take flakes,tablets,etc.
And I wouldn't get a syno so small that the Ctenopoma acutirostre will try to suck it up. That could spell death for both fish.
research, research, research.

I've kept SA leaf fish on a couple of occasions & it is the only fish species i've kept that i couldn't wean off live feeder fish. This is despite some intensive & often inventive efforts to stimulate them to feed on other live foods. Gammarus type shrimps were not taken, nor bloodworm, an only the occasional live tiny earthworm. 'River' shrimps (that look like prawns) were taken readily but only when the moved through open water. This species needs a species only tank & personally because it only will eat live fish, i'd suggest it should not be kept by anyone.

Koensis (Genuine ones, although the name has been used for hybrids) are virtually never imported. Ocellifer get too big for that size tank really & i find shoutedeni to be very quarrelsome in groups in smaller sized tanks

I also would give the Amazon leaffish a miss. As Richard says, they are best off in a species tank. However, the mix of the Ctenopoma, butterfly fish, and small synos such as would make for a super African-themed tank.

It is very possible to get more interesting small mochokids such as , or , but you may have to be super patient for these.

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I am leaning heavily towards Synodontis negriventris because I feel they will be most "natural" in my setup, with it's 12" footprint. This seems like a good fit for my tank as I am considering only keeping African river fish in this tank.

Thanks for the advice Richard and racoll, luckily the Amazon Leaf fish at my work readily accept frozen and more than half of them take pellets readily. With that being said, I am likely going to stick with an African river themed tank. I am not sure what other fish to consider, I have 2 beautiful African killies which are 2"+. So far the plan is:\

Leopard Ctenepoma
African Butterfly
Synodontis negriventris

Any other suggestions? Tank is fairly well planted now with a good amount of wood. Water is heavily stained with tannins.

Also, how many Upside down Cats should I keep?

Also, how many Upside down Cats should I keep?

I would go with minimum six and up to a dozen.

If you are used to the Tanganyikan synos these are not as active...but your tank is perfect for them.

They love to hang underneath overhangs,they do not have to be close to the bottom, whether large leaves or stones and as they get older will claim an area. When kept in a tank such as what you have you will see many different subtle colors in these fish...when they are feeling good.

I have a large group and will always have these...just fed them.

Birger

dbl_dbl wrote: I am likely going to stick with an African river themed tank. I am not sure what other fish to consider, I have 2 beautiful African killies which are 2"+. So far the plan is:

Leopard Ctenepoma
African Butterfly
Synodontis negriventris

Any other suggestions? Tank is fairly well planted now with a good amount of wood. Water is heavily stained with tannins.

I'd be tempted to just leave it at those you've already listed, and get a fair few of each (although the Ctenopoma will get territorial eventually). However, it might be worth keeping an eye out for any interesting Africans cyprinids or tetras that crop up from time to time. The killis could also work, as long as they don't get eaten!

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Yea, the smart thing to do would probably be to get more Syno. negriventris rather than a different species. \

Right now I have just the Ctenopoma...I'm very worried though as he is too shy to come out and eat. He's only 4 days or so since being added. I have tried many things, including some livebearer fry tonight (maybe he's eating them in his cave/at night...I hope) and some frozen foods. Lets hope for the best. Do you think getting another 1 or 2 would make him feel safe, or is this a bad idea?

I have adult livebearers in the tank which were used as canaries and soon will be used as a live food factory. I wonder if they are too active for him. Maybe he just feels more comfortable at night.

I added another 12lbs of Mopani wood and created multiple overhangs. Hopefully they feel at home in the tank! Will be looking at picking them up in the next couple of weeks. I will post pics possibly tomorrow.
For the record, I do have a 75g in storage, that's the long term plan for the Ctenepoma. I haven't set it up as I am moving in the early spring.

YES!!!! I turned down the lights and I saw the Ctenepoma eat a fry! Bad day for the fry but it feels like a million bucks finally seeing him eat!

I'm very worried though as he is too shy to come out and eat

Should get braver.
Once the Ctenopoma acutirostre outgrow the tank you could find some Microctenopoma ansorgii or something along those lines.

Hopefully they feel at home in the tank!

They (the nigriventris)will love it!


Birger

dbl_dbl wrote:Right now I have just the Ctenopoma...I'm very worried though as he is too shy to come out and eat. He's only 4 days or so since being added. I have tried many things, including some livebearer fry tonight (maybe he's eating them in his cave/at night...I hope) and some frozen foods. Lets hope for the best. Do you think getting another 1 or 2 would make him feel safe, or is this a bad idea?

I assume it's a small one? I would be tempted to get another four or so small ones, and grow them on a bit. Hopefully you will be able to sex them when they are larger, and then just keep a pair for the tank. They would make a neat breeding project. They are timid by nature, but your tank sounds ideal, so they will get bolder as they get larger and more settled. They mostly hide, but always come out when food is offered. They should get along fine when they are small. Larger ones will be a bit more aggressive.

Microctenopoma ansorgii is another species I have kept as well as C. acutirostre and M. fasciolatum. Never quite as gorgeous as in the photos, and quite prone to obesity, but a great little fish if you can find it.

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I have four (~10-12cm SL, three raised from ~2cm babies back in June 2010) Ctenopoma acutirostre and a Pantodon buchholzi in my 140l 48x12x15. Both these species are intimidated by fast moving tankmates, the bushfish are so much bolder now than when they shared my 5x2x2 with the Opsarius I passed on to "MartinS" back in February, the classic dithers for these are either Phenacogrammus interruptus or the smaller Alestopetersius caudalis (care needs to be taken with the latter to ensure the newly purchased specimens are deep bodied enough to make "live lunch" a non-possibility). Dithers will probably help young bushfish, but my ones are now quite happy without.
To give you an idea of their mouth size, my biggest one reveals a telescopic mouth that I could put my middle finger through, anything of similar shape and <75% of the bushfish's length is at risk. I know of a case where a ~5cm Ctenopoma tried to eat a 4cm Otocinclus which locked out its pectoral fins inside the bushfish's jaw, which sadly killed both fish over the space of an hour.

I have 11 Synodontis cf. nigriventris (might be the odd contaminant in there) that have taken an age to grow, but eventually these will be added to the predator tank. These guys moved into my 620T for a couple of months this summer and their activity went through the roof (not just the first few days while settling in, this was the whole time they were in there) compared to any other time in the last two years, I can only put it down to the messy giant clump of Anubias that was floating in there, it gave the catfish a lot of confidence to be visible except 1200-1600ish. I moved them to my recently purchased 48x17x22 (with no plants) to go with a group of 22 Pareutropius cf. mandevillei amongst others and while it has given them move space, the synos are now back to their old ways of being a fish I never see do anything!

I have a ~10cm SL Synodontis congica in that same 48x17x22 and while "his" timid feeding habits would suit the Ctenopoma and Pantodon well, he loves swimming midwater the whole length of the tank, quite often during daylight hours (very odd for a fish with such big nocturnal eyes). There is a fair current in the tank (~3000lph) which he loves swimming against, which should not be suprising considering his origin from near Malebo Pool, for this reason I'm not sure putting him with my predators would be a good fit... Yes he would cope with the gentle stream current, but he is such an energetic water current surfing junkie.

Finally, in my experience, there is no reason why you should need to be feeding your Ctenopoma or Pantodon live food. Both will readily take a whole variety of dried foodstuffs such as Hikari floating "baby" Cichild Gold pellets; Tetra Prima; Hikari algae wafers (yes my bushfish are omnivores! ); JBL Catfish pellets; Doromin/ Cichlid XL etc.

Thanks for the info! I agree that the platies in this case are likely intimidating the Bushfish. He doesn't come out almost at all. If I turn off the main lights, he will inch out of his cave, but when I add food, he dissapears again. Perhaps he is eating scraps at night but I have doubts.

Picked up the Butterfly tonight. He's already eating everything in sight. I tested to make sure he took prepared foods at work and he did. He seems happy in the slow spot under the salvinia.

May take out platies when I add the catfish. I don't think the nigriventris will upset the Bushfish quite so much. I almost picked up a dozen today but I saw some disturbing health issues on a few of them so I'm gonna wait.

Slightly off topic...

I have 11 Synodontis cf. nigriventris (might be the odd contaminant in there)

I would be interested to see why the cf. and what these contaminants look like.

Birger

Thanks for all the help Birger. Here are some pics:


Fauna
1x Ctenopoma acutirostre (African Bush Fish/Leopard Ctenopoma)
1x Pantodon bucholzi (African Butterfly Fish)
7x Asst Platies and Mollies (canaries post cycle, fry factories, will be removed soon)
Asst Snails

Will eventually be adding 9-12 Synodontis nigriventris (Upside-down Catfish). The one's at work are looking a bit under the weather so I'm going to hold off for now.













Everything is growing and happy for now, so I'm happy. And yes, the tannins are there on purpose!

The Bushfish spends most of his time in the various caves, comes out a lot when I turn off the main lights. The Butterfly spends most of his time hiding out under the salvinia and frogbit (thanks to the member who gave me a bit back at the sponser meet up a few months back!).

Anyways it won't win any beauty contests but it's practical and a lot of fun to watch!

Added 12 nigriventris tonight. Thanks for the help guys!

Still worried about the Bushfish. Will be removing the livebearers soon, hopefully he comes out more then. Honestly, he's not afraid of them, just people.

The Cats seem pretty happy. Lots of surfaces for them to "overhang". The butterfly is also doing well.

Nice looking tank. Looks ideal.

What I would do is put a dark coloured backing on the tank (back and at least one side). This really helps in getting the fish more confident.

Still worried about the Bushfish. Will be removing the livebearers soon, hopefully he comes out more then.

Unlikely. Better to have them in there providing food, until he's confidently eating the food you add.

Birger wrote:Slightly off topic...

I have 11 Synodontis cf. nigriventris (might be the odd contaminant in there)

I would be interested to see why the cf. and what these contaminants look like.

Birger

I will endevour to get some photos when I transfer them to the Ctenopoma/Pantodon tank in the new year. I'm not sure if I have the odd S. contracta in the group, plus there are some with a very well defined light brown humural process that resembles that of the S. aterrima photo in the PC databank. The fact that the group was built up from four seperate purchases to 13 (sadly lost one in my Ich wipeout in February and another poor sod managed to get inside a loose Fluval U4 lid and then unknowningly put above the waterline) does increase the odds of contimants a little.

The OPs tank looks great for the fish in there, I would suggest that the bogwood stack is increased in height a little more and some bushy Anubias such as coffeefolia are added, this way the nigriventris group might be seen more often (although they will probably be a bit hyperactive for the next day or two anyway following their introduction).

Still worried about the Bushfish. Will be removing the livebearers soon, hopefully he comes out more then. Honestly, he's not afraid of them, just people.

I have four little ones I am raising up and it seems they all work off each other, when I feed one will approach a few inches then the next,and so on, I am sure this will change as they get bigger but for now a group of them is good. Birger

Interesting, I should definitely add a few more. I wasn't 100% sure if they liked being kept as a group.

My Pantodon is showing some new behavior. He spends most his time floating under the plants, but last couple days I've seen him go lower, sometimes going through the plants. My guess is he's looking for food with all the new movement below him.

Current stocking list:

Bushfish
Butterfly
12x S. nigriventris
5x Platy
2x Molly

The Mollys are going to go but I may keep the platies around a little bit longer.

Will adding a few small Bushfish be problem bioload wise? I'm running a large sponge with a poerhead doing 3x volume per hour and an Eheim 2011. I will post some updated params tonight while I'm waterchaning.

If you are going to add any more bushfish, it is far better to do it sooner than later, as mature specimens will get rather fiesty with newcomers. I was lucky when I added a fourth one to my group, he was significantly bigger than the three I had raised from 20p coin size babies, so he instantly became the leader of the group without challenge. Personally, I would not add more than another two to the existing setup if upgrading to something bigger is not likely, even with the livebearers gone this tank is now quite well stocked with 1x Pantodon; 1x Ctenopoma; 12x Synodontis (eventually ~90cm of fish, but all will take some time to reach likely adult sizes).

Just like your bushfish, it is very possible that the Pantodon is getting spooked by the livebearers, resulting in the odd behaviour in hiding midwater. This is what my female one does when she gets upset with me fiddling in her tank, often hiding under midwater bogwood instead of floating on the water surface.

Well I have some bad news, the Bushfish seems to be on his way out.... I'm really upset about this, and I couldn't really tell you why - here are on the only variables:

-Recently topped off tank = less oxygen because there is less surface agitation? Water was dechlorinated with Prime
-Recently set up new filter running just bio
-Added 12 Syno. nigriventris 2 days ago.

Odd thing is, I spent a good chunk of Sunday with a chair in front of the tank with my laptop, watching the fish and surfing. He seemed happy, I even saw him come out and eat for the first time in front of me.

Water parameters are all where they should be, 0-0-5/10ppm nitrate. No pH swing, no kH swing. Pretty devastating. No signs of disease either. I moved him to a calmer tank with similar parameters ph wise, but with much more peaceful fish and much more oxygen (sponge filter, air driven) and turned off the lights...no improvement yet, he's just hanging on.