Eupterus with LLE/HITH

[strangelynormal]

I have a peculiar situation with a eupterus. He has HITH/LLE I cannot seem to get rid of. It is not worsening, but it isn't getting better. I'm stumped.

I have added more veggies/vitamin c into his diet along with dosing metronidazole food just in case. I have repashy soilent green as well.

Anything else I could be doing? Feeding? etc?

They may be shrinking with the metro food, I can't honestly tell. The holes are still very small knock wood, and can only be seen if light hits them correctly at a certain angle. Everyone here knows Synodontis don't like light.

I'm not sure if it may be bacterial or some kind of secondary bacterial infection may be involved.

[Birger]

Check out this recent thread http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... 24#p284302

Also can you fill us in on water conditions, tank size and companions.

Birger

[strangelynormal]

Water has always been fine. It is overfiltered. Ammonia always 0, Nitrites always 0, nitrates always low. Tank is a 90g. Companions are only 6 diamond tetras and 6 boesemani rainbowfish. There's barely anything in there really, it's not water quality and it's not stress.

yes, its been making me wonder. the tank is 8 months old, there isn't any normal algae in it.

[Birger]

Out of interest what is your ph. ?

Birger

[strangelynormal]

6.8-7.2 range. Not too acidic, not too basic. As far as I know they can go as high as 7.5 for their ph (eupterus). mine is really smack in the middle of their PH range.

[strangelynormal]

Hey, wanted to let you guys know I managed to knock out the LLE/HITH. I don't know how I did, but I fed him VitaChem, Omega One Algae Wafers, Hikari, frozen food, NLS Thera+A and Soilent Green. It's practically reversed and he is healing up slowly. He has a few tiny holes healing but even the white scabs are disappearing. I am so happy!

But I had another question. As I said I have a 90g, with diamond tetras and boesemanis. I have the chance to get some small spotted pictus (2-3). Is that a good idea? I want to do right by the Synodontis I fought so hard to save and reverse HITH. I will not get it if he will not be happy or it will endanger him.

[strangelynormal]

Hey. I thought I would follow up for the sake of those googling who may stumble upon this thread.


It has been almost two years since he began showing signs of HITH. I have borderline basic water but acidic tank water due to driftwood.

The HITH is reversing. I have fed him soilent green every night for these years, with occasional 1 or 2 day breaks, with hikari carnivore sinking pellets, in combination with frozen and fresh foods mostly consisting of plant matter and the occasional shrimp.

His largest scab is now literally disappearing. His other scabs are totally gone. I am in awe.

If there was anyone left with a shadow of a doubt that soilent green will reverse hith - it will. I have him in an understocked 90 gallon with two aquaclear HOB filters and a FX6. I figured this was important because clean water is vital to healing HITH scars.

Anyone with any doubt, or any poor sap googling - if it's not hexamita or a parasite, get Soilent Green. And it's best to keep the water as pristine as humanly possible.

And anyone here who wanted a bit of a "case study" to see the long term effects of soilent, I am happy to report to you. His smallest scabs were healing and I just checked and all but two or three scabs are totally gone, with the biggest one almost gone. What seems to occur is that scabs that are very white and very established and very large - the skin almost takes it over. For the smaller scabs, they seem to just lighten and lighten until they disappear.

I am so grateful for having learned about soilent here.

[bekateen]

Thanks for the update. Glad to know it's doing so well. By chance have you ever gotten any photos of it, either before or after? If so, it would be wonderful to see the progress.

Cheers, Eric

[TwoTankAmin]

From what I have read, HITH is believed to be caused by the parasite Spironucleus vortens and the preferred treatment is Metrodinazole. Unfortunately, this med is not permitted for use in food fish and resistence to the med can also be an issue, However, it is safe for use in the hobby as long as one does not plan to eat any of their fish.

I am thinking what helped your fish was most likely the metro rather than the food. That said, there has been some research which indicates garlic may also help in treating this disease. If you look at the ingredients for Soilent green, you will see garlic included in the ingredients. It looks to me as if you hit it with both these things.

Here is one of many papers on this topic, it is a Review Article published in 2011 in the Journal of Aquaculture Research & Development http://www.omicsonline.org/spironucleus ... p?aid=2762

[strangelynormal]

Twotank, take a look at the link birger posted earlier in this thread. If it was a parasite metro would have worked and he didn't have white poo at the time. HITH is not only caused by parasites - it can also be caused by poor water quality or a mineral or vitamin lacking in the diet. I'm not saying its not possible he had a parasite, I'm merely saying from what I can tell its extremely unlikely. Also, before I added him to the tank he's in now, he was in a very old, very established tank, where there was algae around. This tank was brand new, and while it was cycled - it didn't have any algae at all. There still isn't natural algae around. Definitely check out the link.

Also he was added to a hospital tank 2 years ago when this first began with metro in the water and food and the ammonia spiked. This resulted in even more scabs forming. Also he went like one month a year ago where he did not get soilent green and the scabs came back. The metro even in the main tank did not improve it.

Yes I will be posting before and after photos shortly.

[TwoTankAmin]

@ strangelynormal

Please take a few minutes to do the following.
Go to Google Scholar here http://scholar.google.com/

Then type the following in the search box "Spironucleus vortens as a cause of Hole in the head" Before you hit enter, Click on "Custom Range" to select the time period and then search from 2000 to 2016. See what you find.

[strangelynormal]

I've googled it quite a bit and read many studies, thanks. I'm not questioning the validity of the studies.

I'm not saying it wasn't a parasite really. I'm saying whatever the cause was, either parasite or diet or whatever else, since there isn't a way to definitively know, soilent green will help aid in reversing it or aiding in healing the scabs.

This isn't a debate regarding what causes HITH in featherfins. If you'd like to debate that perhaps start a thread. Interesting finds regardless.