Pseudohemiodon lamina (Now I've gone and done it!)

pturley · Post by **pturley** » 20 Feb 2004, 17:25

It's official, San Francisco has allowed same sex marriages. Ohio has allowed me to marry a fishtank!

Last week at The Fish Place in the Buffalo area I purchased 3 (1 male, 2 females) Pseudohemiodon spp. in spectacular condition. The females actually are fuller bellied than the male indicating an egg mass! The owner of the store said they arrived with a shipment of Peruvian fish so all bets are Ps. lamina. Will get photos up ASAP.
These fish have a long and well earned reputation of being extremely sensitive to Nitrogenous wastes so, officially, I am now married to their tank! I have the fish in a 40 Breeder w/a sand substrate at 80F. 30% Water changes every other day (or more!).

The fish seem to have settled in OK and they are feeding! Which is always a very big step!

Interesting thing to note, they don't sit on top of the sand to feed they remain buried in the substrate nearly at all times. It's only when they panic or make other sudden moves that you'll see the whole fish. Anyway, they actually sift food particles out of the column of sand directly in front of themselves moving forward slowly in the process. It's easy to judge when to foods in the aquarium is to their liking as a small pit forms in the sand directly in front of thier snout as the sift mouthfulls of sand. Very cool!

Here's a Cat-E-Log link to a related species Pseudohemiodon laticeps

Wish me luck.

pturley · Post by **pturley** » 20 Feb 2004, 18:18

BTW: I just noticed my observations about these fish feeding directly contradicts another aquarist's observations for Pseudohemiodon laticeps in the CotM here.

characinkid · Post by **characinkid** » 20 Feb 2004, 18:57

I am SO SO glad that someone else has seen that these fish DO NOT eat algae.....

I had a group of them about 4 years ago, and kept them for about 2 years.. they are wonderful fish. Mine would eat, flake, bloodworm, chopped earthworm, small pelleted and even the odd pea.

I have got a couple of Planiloricaria cryptodon at the moment that act in the exact same way, they are wonderful fish.

I would VERY much like to see pics of your fish, especially the differences between the sexes as i have never seen any real differences, from what I read it is all in the lips.. they are lip brooders and therefore the shape of the lips is different in the sexes.

There seems to be alot of confusion in ID'ing these fish, so a picture would be great.

Anyway would love to know more about yours.....

ClayT101 · Post by **ClayT101** » 20 Feb 2004, 20:54

Did you drive or fly to Buffalo? I love going to that store, it is so awesome. I will probably be going up there in mid-summer. I will probably get more fish and bring them home on the plane with me. Did Pete have any other exotic plecos there?

kwalker · Post by **kwalker** » 20 Feb 2004, 21:48

Did Pete have any other exotic pl*cos there?

to say the very least.

ken

characinkid · Post by **characinkid** » 20 Feb 2004, 22:03

Is this place in North Tonawanda NY? I get out that way about twice a year...

kwalker · Post by **kwalker** » 20 Feb 2004, 22:27

Is this place in North Tonawanda NY? I get out that way about twice a year...

yes it is. 141 robinson street

ken walker]

pturley · Post by **pturley** » 23 Feb 2004, 18:21

characinkid Wrote:

I would VERY much like to see pics of your fish, especially the differences between the sexes as i have never seen any real differences, from what I read it is all in the lips.. they are lip brooders and therefore the shape of the lips is different in the sexes.

As far as the identity of the fish, I am relying more on the country of import than any particular differences. Per my initial post, I am not entirely sure of the species identity of these fish. Given that they arrived in a shipment from Peru, they are more likely to be Ps. lamina which is from Peru, than Ps. laticeps which is described from Paraguay.

As far as identifing sexes. I am relying on several features
1. Width of the head: In similarly sized Loricaria and related species the males have a distictly broader head. This is clearly evident in Planiloricaria cryptodon, most groups of Loricaria I have seen and in my fish.
2. Height of the body/width at the pelvic fins: Females are typically higher bodied and wider in the pelvic fin area. My fish demonstrate this. I am not willing to manipulate them to get pics though! If I happen to move them to a different tank (not likely!), I will take the opportunity to snap a few shots.
3. Shape and thickness of the pectoral fin ray: This is noted by Njissen and Isbrucker in the scientific description of several Loricaria species, there is a distinct difference in shape of the pectoral fin rays of the sexes. This appears to be the case in the Pseudohemiodon spp. I currently have. I should be able to get a picture of this even though the differences in these fish is significantly less than that shown in Loricaria.

characinkid · Post by **characinkid** » 01 Mar 2004, 16:37

Thanks for the info Paul,

any pictures that you could get would be great. A food that I have foud that my Plani go crazy for is the New Life Stectrum All purpose pellets(the small size). They LOVE them, although they will eat most other things....

i was wondering if P. lamina is a real sp? Every lamina I have seen has been either a Plani or a P. laticeps?

Thanks

pturley · Post by **pturley** » 01 Mar 2004, 16:47

On the basis of which characteristics?

I don't have the species descriptions for Ps. laticeps and Ps. lamina but I doubt they would have been accepted as a new species if there weren't significant distinguishing characteristics. Features that we as aquarists may or may not be able to differentiate.

EDIT:
BTW: I have some Spectrum foods, but don't use it much. I'll give it a try for tonights feeding. Thanks

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 01 Mar 2004, 20:15

pturley wrote:BTW: I just noticed my observations about these fish feeding directly contradicts another aquarist's observations for Pseudohemiodon laticeps in the CotM here.

Maybe I didn't keep mine in deep enough sand, but they certainly came up out of the sand when feeding.

Jools

pturley · Post by **pturley** » 01 Mar 2004, 22:16

My fish are in just enough sand for them to be completely covered. It could also be nervousness in the fish though. However, typically if the fish are not rested, they won't feed.

I really do need to post a photo of them feeding. I'll try a couple shots with my dig. and burn off the rest of a roll of film in my SLR tonight. I'll post shots when available.

Marshel · Post by **Marshel** » 02 Mar 2004, 08:47

I have kept 30 pieces from Oct to Dec last year. It seems mine have more dark color than the pictures of Catlog.

I found this fish likes meat more than vegetables. I feed them Blood worm.

They seem to like small sand although I didn't use. As for me, it is very hard to distinguish the sex. I have never read any material on how to identify the sex for Loricaria Fish.

Thanks.

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 02 Mar 2004, 14:37

Jools wrote:Maybe I didn't keep mine in deep enough sand, but they certainly came up out of the sand when feeding. Jools

Mine also. From being buried they would emerge and 'bounce' along on their pelvics using the branched barbels to locate and consume individual food particles.

plesner · Post by **plesner** » 02 Mar 2004, 16:28

Marchel wrote:I have never read any material on how to identify the sex for Loricaria Fish.

Right now I'm looking at a few pictures (and descriptions) of the difference between male and female Pseudohemiodon lamina. In the same booklet, other closely related species are described as well. The booklet is a German one:

BSSW Spezial: MaulbrÃ¼tende Harnischwelse, Hans-Georg Evers & Ingo Seidel, 1996.

Unfortunately I don't have access to a scanner right now. Maybe one of our German members can help ?

characinkid · Post by **characinkid** » 03 Mar 2004, 00:59

Hi

I was wondering if you can all look at these photos and let me know what you think they are?

Here is what is being called P. lamina:

http://www.raubwelse.de/galerie/saugwelse/l031.htm

this sure looks very close to Planiloricaria cryptodon

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/lo ... /627_f.php

I would love to know how to tell them apart.

plesner.. can you let us know what the differences are between males and females.

pturley · Post by **pturley** » 03 Mar 2004, 04:29

The fish in on the website is a Planiloricaria. The Pseudohemiodon have a more pointed rostrum like the Cat-ELog photos of Ps. laticeps.

I mentioned how to determine the the sexes of these fish previously in my post.
pturley Wrote:

As far as identifing sexes. I am relying on several features
1. Width of the head: In similarly sized Loricaria and related species the males have a distictly broader head. This is clearly evident in Planiloricaria cryptodon, most groups of Loricaria I have seen and in my fish.
2. Height of the body/width at the pelvic fins: Females are typically higher bodied and wider in the pelvic fin area. My fish demonstrate this. I am not willing to manipulate them to get pics though! If I happen to move them to a different tank (not likely!), I will take the opportunity to snap a few shots.
3. Shape and thickness of the pectoral fin ray: This is noted by Njissen and Isbrucker in the scientific description of several Loricaria species, there is a distinct difference in shape of the pectoral fin rays of the sexes. This appears to be the case in the Pseudohemiodon spp. I currently have. I should be able to get a picture of this even though the differences in these fish is significantly less than that shown in Loricaria.

characinkid · Post by **characinkid** » 03 Mar 2004, 13:03

Thanks for the info Paul.. Have you ever seen a picture of a P.lamina?

Thanks

pturley · Post by **pturley** » 03 Mar 2004, 14:35

Yes in the BSSW Special Issue.

characinkid · Post by **characinkid** » 04 Mar 2004, 13:10

Hi Paul,

Have you any idea how to get copies of their magazine? I went to the web site and sent an email about 2 weeks ago asking if I could get a copy that had the description of Planiloricaria, but have heard nothing....

it sounds like a great publication.

Thanks...

pturley · Post by **pturley** » 04 Mar 2004, 15:43

You can find information here. I hope your German is up to snuff.

BSSW Online

characinkid · Post by **characinkid** » 04 Mar 2004, 19:31

hi Paul,

thanks for the link, but after spending about 1/2 hr browsing their web site I can not find any pictures of lamina. I also see that there is a talk this April in about breeding P. apithanos which would be very interesing.... hopefully they put it in print.

I am using the google tanslater to translate the pages, but do not see where you can download the editions or pictures, maybe i am not looking in the right place... I do get alot of errors trying to look at the detail of the magazines, maybe this is the problem.

I would love to get hardcopies of these, i noticed that there is a guy in OH who is listed with a phone number, I may give him a call and see if he can help me.

Thanks
Rupert

pturley · Post by **pturley** » 15 Mar 2004, 18:07

Characinkid wrote in a PM:

Hi
How are your Pseudohemiodon? Do you have any pictures? What are they eating these days? Any idea how to get them to spawn? Do they need any thing special to breed that you know of.. i am sure they would not need a cave, but maybe they need something else.
I keep my Plani. in a bare black bottom tank so that I can see how much they are eating.. how do you make sure yours get enough to eat in a sand tank? I am thinking of adding a little sand so that they can hide.

Thanks
Rupert Richardson

An update on my recent marriageâ?¦

â?¦ well the water-change religion continues (30-50% every other day or more), to the benefit of the Pseudohemiodon and all the other fish in my fish room. (Well, as long as I have the hoses outâ?¦)

I have since added several Mysis shrimp to the tank with the expectation the Pseudohemiodon would eat them. They didnâ??t. One of them did eat a shrimp that was in the process of molting though. The remaining shrimp serve the roll of clean-up crew quite nicely now.

The fish are fed all variety of foods, all sorts of pelleted and flake foods, live blackworms, frozen brine shrimp and cockles, newly hatched brine shrimp nauplii and a high protein blender mix* (recipe below).
Of note, algae disks arenâ??t even on the menu for these fish! They even ignored HBH Graze (Soft and Moist, Green), which is just about a first in my fish room. IME just about every catfish will vigorously attack this food. Thatâ??s the reason itâ??s considered a staple in my fish room.

All three of the fish remain a bit nervous, but they are eating. The presence of fecal matter on top of the sand is evidence of that. At least one of them isnâ??t as deliberate about burying itself at every opportunity, perhaps my observations about them feeding while still buried are more related to mood than â??usualâ?

Post by **Barbie** » 15 Mar 2004, 18:34

Please Paul, tell me you have a second blender in the kitchen!

Barbie

pturley · Post by **pturley** » 15 Mar 2004, 18:44

Barbie,
See this thread.

And yes, I do have a blender specifically for pulverizing the freeze dried krill.

Wanna' come over for dinner

Post by **Barbie** » 15 Mar 2004, 18:57

*makes a note to eat BEFORE she goes to pauls for dinner, and take beer!*

Barbie

characinkid · Post by **characinkid** » 15 Mar 2004, 19:40

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the update.. It sounds as if they are doing well.

I will have to try and make some of my own food, sounds quite an experience!! Not sure I could do the roaches though...

Thanks

pturley · Post by **pturley** » 15 Mar 2004, 20:01

I have used Mealworms, Giant Mealworms (Zoophobios spp.) and Crickets before. All of these are available bulk (price per 1000) through the reptile hobbiest sources. You can get them at Reptile Swap meets, or order them online. BTW: A thousand adult crickets is close enough a pound.

All of the above are very high protein.

You could also use whole frozen prawns or krill. It all works...

Later this spring, I'll be raising Silkworms to go in the freezer for future batches of foods as I have a great stand of Mulberries in the back of my yard (FYI: Silkworm food). Can't do the roaches again! My wife found out about the last colony and fishfood, however good, isn't worth a divorce!

Then again

Post by **Barbie** » 15 Mar 2004, 20:23

LOL! I have a couple ex's that forbid me to buy more fish tanks

. Thank GOD Bob likes the fish tanks, and doesn't mind the new ones. His only real sticking point came when I suggested putting live black worms in the fridge.... I guess he WAS listening when the old roomie regaled us with a story about finding a few in the bottom of the KoolAid pitcher, hehe. Then again, they had a 2 year old, I am sticking to the story that she put them there!

Barbie