New RIO 300 tank

[slakey]

Ok I just wanted to make sure.

As for stirring the sand, I may get 4-5 Khuli Loaches

[racoll]

Khuli loaches are cool, but if you only use <1cm of sand, you will not really need to stir it. It will keep itself oxygenated.

[slakey]

I was told and have seen that you need to stir it because of little pockets that release something dangerous to the fish, that could kill them all, forgot what it's called.

Also under the filter there'll need to be a good 5inches of sand, as for the rest of the tank I'm not sure how to do it?

I would like some plants in there of course, and the plants will need atleast 2inches or more.

I may try and go with a hillside, so where the filter is would be the highest point, and the left side the lowest point, if I can make it work

[MatsP]

I'm the first to admit I don't know exactly what the RIO300 looks like, but my RIO400 has very similar measures except being 30cm longer, and it's got the same name of filter. My filter box sits about 2-3 inches off the bottom of the tank, and I have a gap of about an inch - it makes a nice cave for the fishes that way. I don't find there to be any trouble with muck collecting there any worse than anywhere else (and if it did, at least you wouldn't see it).

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Mats

[slakey]

I'll see what it's like first. Still need to fill in the wall first where the paint has come off due to us taking off the wood border, then we can finally paint it then once that part of the wall has been given 1-2 coats of paint and is dry I can move the tank back there and whilst my dad continues to paint the rest of the room I can be setting up the tank, yay!

[slakey]

Woop Woop, wall has been painted (2 coats) so that's all done, just need to gloss the wood skirts, then my tank can be moved back in place and started on Hopefully the glossing will happen on Monday.

So just to recape of what will be happening to my tank.

1. Move back in place.
2. Put backing on tank. (Black)
3. Wash first bag of sand.
4. Put black sand in tank. (See if I need more bags)
5. *If needed buy more black sand, most probably*
6. Look for/buy more wood.
7. Boil the wood for 6weeks?
8. Wash and add second bag of sand. (See if I still need more)
9. Buy secondary internal filter. (which one? fluval plus 4 or another type? help)
10. Buy 2 Hydor Ario 4's, and put in place.
11. Add more black sand if needed.
12. Add wood pieces if after their 6week boil.
13. Add 3-6 inches of water.
14. Buy plants. (hardy, someone point me into the direction again?)
15. Place plants in tank.
16. Fill the tank up.
17. Turn everything on.
18. Play the waiting game.
19. After water is all good, add fishies!

Ok now the second internal filter, I want one no matter what as I think it'll help the Juwel keep the water in better quality, now I've only seen one make for internal filters that gets my approval and that's the Fluval plus 4, now if there's better ones that you know of please tell me, thanks. (I will be getting a External Filter, but further on down the line)

As for the plants, I know the basics like Java Fern etc, but I know I'd like some Anubias Nana's and also some Vallis. But what else would look good for a tank like mine? It'll probably be eaiser to suggest what other plants to get once it's ready and you can see what it'll look when full of water.

Fish Stock:
10 Corydoras sterbai
Pair of Angels
5 Kuhli Loach
Bristlenose Plecostamus *if I can find out how to get my first tank suited for one*
*Question: could I house a severum with the other tank mates?*

[racoll]

Slakey, great to hear your tank is coming along so fast.

Buy secondary internal filter. (which one? fluval plus 4 or another type? help

I see I am not going to be able to convince you to get an external filter

Looking at your stocklist, it is not heavy and these are not bulky, messy or waste producing fish like Panaque. I see no reason why you need extra filtration. It can't hurt, but the Jewel equipment has a good reputation. An extra internal filter will make the tank look cluttered and shabby. If you do want one, then do not buy a Fluval internal. I have used one, and they block up very quickly and start sucking water in through the adjustment lever, bypassing the pathetic amount of biological media they have. REMEMBER, THEY ARE CHEAP FOR A REASON! Eheim internals look like a much better product.

As for the plants, I know the basics like Java Fern etc, but I know I'd like some Anubias Nana's and also some Vallis. But what else would look good for a tank like mine?

Unfortunately when you have standard lighting and no CO2, you cannot pick and choose which plants look good. You have to go for the trusty favourites for a low light/CO2 tank. Java fern, Anubias spp. and Vallis are ideal plants, as is Cryptocoryne wendtii. Luckily I think all these plants look great. Adding a floating plant such as hornwort (Ceratophyllum demersum) or amazon frogbit (Limnobium laevigatum) is an excellent idea when setting up a new aquarium. They are easy and fast growing, and will suck up excess ammonia and nitrite as well as filtering out a bit of light, making it hard for algae to get a hold. They also provide natural shelter for the fish, who will be more outgoing as a result.

I assume you are using media/water/decor from your current tank to cycle the new one?

Add wood pieces if after their 6week boil.

I assume you mean soak? Not really practical to boil something for 6 weeks! I have added wood straight into the tank with no boiling or soaking. It will not harm the fish, but soft woods can attract mould without a pre-soak, and may also float. You will also get more tannins out of the wood this way.

Safest bet is to simmer for an hour in a big pot, and soak for a week or two to get the worst of it out. I have also put awkward-sized wood through the dishwasher (no detergent/rinse aid etc!) on its hottest setting. What you need to do will depend on the type of wood you buy. The harder and denser the wood, the less boiling/soaking is required.

[slakey]

I will be using some water from my 125L yes

Which Eheim Internal Filter should I go for?
I will be getting a external later on down the line.

Thanks for the plant suggestions.

It's mopani wood that I'll be putting in the tank. Another option would be, could I put the wood in the water without soaking, and use the carbon filter to take out the tannins?

[racoll]

Which Eheim Internal Filter should I go for?
I will be getting a external later on down the line.

In this case, you will not need an internal at all. The Jewel filter will be fine until you get an external. Save your money!

It's mopani wood that I'll be putting in the tank. Another option would be, could I put the wood in the water without soaking, and use the carbon filter to take out the tannins?

Mopani, although it will release a lot of tannins, will sink immediately and will not grow mould. Despite not always doing this myself, I would recommend a quick boil, and soak for 7-14 days, just to be sure.

Carbon will remove tannins, but don't run it 24/7; it will remove micronutrients appreciated by plants and fish. Run it for say 24 hours immediately prior to a water change, so that your new water will replenish these micronutrients.

[slakey]

Ok 7-14 days soak.

How about carbon filter for 12/7?

Ok I'll save my money :/ lol.

[racoll]

How about carbon filter for 12/7?

If you run the carbon just once, all the micronutrients are removed. They do not come back until you carry out a water change and replenish them. You may as well run the carbon 24/7 if you do that.

If you are really worried out the tannin stains, just carry out more partial water changes (perhaps 2-3 times weekly). The fish will also be healthier as a result.

[slakey]

I won't be adding fish until the water is right and the tannins are out

[racoll]

You will never remove the tannins from mopani wood. I collected some in Zimbabwe in 1991, and after 17 years the small pieces of wood still make my aquarium water go brown.

On the other hand, some other wood I had (not mopani) did stop leaching after about 10 years!

You will be fighting a losing battle. Your fish will appreciate tannins though, and it does prevent algae, so perhaps you could learn to love it?

Perhaps using carbon 24/7 is lot as bad as I understand it is? Would be interested if others have an opinion on this?

[slakey]

Well I'll just see how it goes I suppose

[MatsP]

I agree with Racoll - if you are going to spend money on a filter, go for an external canister filter. In a 300 liter tank, an internal filter like the Fluval 4+ is not going to make much filtration difference. I have one, and it's in a lightly stocked 127 liter tank - and I still have to clean the filter pads every week or it will stop flowing. I will eventually get a different (external) filter for that tank - as soon as I get round to upgrading another one of the tanks for a TetraTec EX1200. It's just not desperate enough at the moment.

If you want more flow, Eheim do "hobby pumps" which just circulate the water in the tank without filtering it. They come in at around 20-25 pounds, so less than the Fluval, and gives more flow (up to 1000 lph) (and much easier to hide in the tank too).

--
Mats

[slakey]

Ok thanks.

Any answers on housing a pair of angels and a severum?

[MatsP]

I don't think severum's will go well with angels. But I have never kept severums myself, so I don't know how docile they are - they certainly aren't the most aggressive of cichlids.

--
Mats

[slakey]

Well I've read some caresheets and it says despite their size they aren't aggressive, but can defend for themselves, if not provide places for hiding...

[MatsP]

Hiding places is certainly a good plan either way - plenty of.

This page says that some individuals are not so mild-mannered: http://www.worldcichlids.com/fishprofiles/severums.html

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Mats

[TP]

Severums are a great fish, I have 7 of them across various tanks. I find them to be shyer than many cichlids and haven't had any problems with aggression from them. They do seem to be able to hold their own if they need to, I have kept them with Uarus and Chocolate cichlids without them being troubled.

I notice earlier in the thread that you intend on planting the tanks and my Severums systematically go through any plants that I put in the tanks, they are not as bad as the Uarus but ultimately I still end up with an unplanted tank! Therefore if you wish to have plants it would be safer to forget the Severums.

[slakey]

Would floating plants be ok?

[TP]

Floating plants can be OK, the fish can't uproot them like normal plants so all they can really do is destroy them by eating them. Some floating plants multiply at a really fast rate therefore if you can get the plants to grow faster than they can eat them then you will be OK. This is the approach I have taken in a 240 litre tank in which I have a pair of Severums and it is working pretty well.

I also have two Rio 300's and they have a pretty large surface area and the lights are OK as well (you can always change the tubes if you find you need more), the key thing I would say is to make sure that you put enough floating plants in at the beginning for them to settle in and start growing before the fish can eat a good proportion of them, If you throw in a £ bag containing a few plants you will have no chance, they'll be gone, if you cover half the tank surface then you'll be in much better shape. This can get expensive if you get the plants from some LFS's as the portions can be pretty small, I went to an independent koi place where they just pulled Salvinia Natans out of a trough in big handfuls for a really good price. I also use Indian fern (Ceropteris Thalictroides) as a floating plant and this grows so fast that i recently had to empty a couple of buckets worth out of the tank.

The other thing you can also do is just grow floating plants in your other tank and when you need to thin them out move them to the tank containing the Severums

[slakey]

Thanks for all the information

Shame I can't have any buried plants :/

Well I can just I'll be spending alot of money lol...

Is there any plant that'd be harmful if they ate it?

I'm thinking of getting some Vallis, just to make it look nice, and then show people who are thinking about getting severums what they do to the plants, a before and after look type thing

[TP]

I can't really think of any plants that would be harmful to them, I've certainly haven't had any problems of that sort. If you are buying your fish when they are small (say 50 pence size) to watch them grow then there is only a certain amount of damage that they can do, and if you have a well rooted plant such as a giant vallis they may actually nip at it but won't physically be big enough to pull it up so they may well survive for a reasonable amount of time before they get pulled up/eaten. You could try a plant like Anubias which has quite thick leaves and is not eaten by herbivorous fish. Its a slow grower but does not need a lot of light so would be ideal under the floating plants. If you tie it to a piece of bogwood instead of planting it in the substrate it can look quite effective and give you some greenery on bottom. My Severums love lettuce and I often throw a whole one in with them and the Uarus and they make very short work of it, maybe you could prolong the life of your plants by providing them with plenty of lettuce and peas etc.

As an aside this seemed a pretty accurate set of information on them - http://www.wetpetz.com/severum.html

[slakey]

Ok I might try plant out my tank, and also give them lettuce and peas and just see how things go I guess...

I'll need some plants to attempt to keep the nitrate low.

Also how much does a RO unit and the required minerals cost?

[Richard B]

If you want a floating plant to help reduce nitrates, Riccia is great (as long as there is little water movement at the surface). it is very quick growing too.

[Bas Pels]

All floating plants hate current. By personla experience is, Lemna can have some, just as Pistia. All others are much more sensitive.

Lemna tends to be a plaque, so, if Riccia will not make it, I'd say try Pistia. However, if there's some current they will, if they manage it, get very, very small, with leaves less then 1 cm long

[slakey]

Ok thanks for the suggestions

Just went to two LFS' and neither had any decent wood :@ and one place was meant to get the new stock in today too

But I did see some Gold Severums.

And also the last place I went to the fishs colours were alot brighter

And they had a Cat Shark? Quite a large fish.

Also at the first store, the had 2-3 Albino Bristlenoses!!!

I was soo tempted to get one, but didn't as I may of lost that one, and since they were £9.99 each I thought it'd be best not to, even though they were larger then the BN's I've lost.

[MatsP]

Ok I might try plant out my tank, and also give them lettuce and peas and just see how things go I guess...

I'll need some plants to attempt to keep the nitrate low.

Also how much does a RO unit and the required minerals cost?

An RO unit will set you back round about 60-100 pounds. Minerals will cost you around £10-15 for a pot, which should last you several months unless you do excessive water changes.

Aside from the RO unit itself, you will also need a storage container to hold the water (as the RO unit takes time to produce say 100 liter of water - around 24h for 100l is expected). You can use a standard loft-storage tank for that, they cost about £25 at Whickes (25g -> 100+ liter). You will also need to find a method to transfer the water from the storage to the tank, and somewhere to keep your storage container. I'd count on another £20-40 for additional "stuff" for the RO water kit (such as hoses, pipe connections, and sundries - it all adds up). You will want some method of "airing" the water as well, so a small airpump with a suitable airstone or a circulation pump.

In my fishroom, I have a 90 lpd unit (AquaMedic, but I'd probably get a RoMan unit if I was buying one today). The water is stored in 2x 25g loft tanks, and I just the other day got myself a 3500 lph AquaMedic Ocean Runner pump to transfer water from the loft tank to the destination fish-tank (this was induced by a move of some tanks, which resulted in the top of the tank being higher than the max water level in my loft tanks, so I could not get the water in there by gravity (I ended up moving the water via a temporary bucket, but because the ceiling is close to the top of the tank too, I had to use a pump again to get the water out of the bucket too).

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Mats

[racoll]

I really wouldn't stress about the nitrate levels.

You are not going to keep any difficult fish, and my experience has shown that despite high nitrates in tapwater, [most] fish are quite healthy providing you change the water regularly and in large amounts. You run into trouble when you get slack with water changes.

I would spend the extra money on a nice big external filter, or making some sort of water changing device to make those frequent changes a doddle. See here: http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1729