Euptera acting differently

[andywoolloo]

75 gal tank
sand substrate (tahitian moon sand with some crushed coral added occasionaly due to low ph)
heater (76 average temp)
driftwood , rocks , slate, pvc
live plants
tank running since nov 07
A 0
NI 0
NA 5 ppm
ph 7.4 - 7.6
50% water change weekly
rena xp3 and rena xp4 running on the tank


occupants 5 syno euptera 1 common pl*co

Well I had less than half of a small bucket of crushed coral left (finely crushed coral, as in sand like)
so I decided to add the remaining to my eupterus tank and some to the lucipinnis tank to get rid of it. Plus I usually add a few cupfuls to the 75 once in awhile due to the ph lowering sometimes to the yellow mark on the card. the 6.0 mark. So I had started adding a few cupfuls, liek plastic drinking bathroom cupfuls to the 75 approx every 6 mos.

Now my first question is is crushed coral crushed coral no matter what size or fineness it is? Cause when I bought the bag awhile ago it was with all the other crushed coral. They had bags of all different crushed sizes. From big bit to fine sand bits. I choose the finely crushed bag so it is the same consistancy of the sand already in the tank.

The differnce in behaviour is since the addition of the crushed coral they are all 5 mainly upside down, like all the time. I mean mine go upside down alot but not all the time. They do flip over and come down but mostly they are all together pretty much and upside down just kicking it. Now this wouldn't bother me cept they are like that 90% of the time now. They look fine, same colour and everything.

I am thnking of sucking the majority of the sand out and readding just the new black tahitian moon sand and see what happens.

Their ph tests at about 7.4 7.6 if I add the supposed crushed coral every few months. If I forget it can get down to the low sixes.

They do not seem really interested in food which is strange also. Normally when I add food they come down and attack it. This week when I add it the stay upside down and just kick it. Since i feed before I leave for work and it's gone when I return, I do not know if the pl*co is eating it all or if they are coming down and feeding. They are all nicely sized and not thin.

Maybe I am worrying for nothing. Maybe it's the change in season?

p.s. I checked the ph prior to adding it and it was 7.2 7.4 approx. But is it true that when you add the crushed coral it only goes up the ph to what its going to go up to not more right? As in it only buffers to what the water needs, I can't explain it.

[MatsP]

What is your KH and GH values?

It is indeed correct that there is a maximum pH you can achieve with only crushed coral - I think it's somewhere in the region of 8.0.

I have no idea as to how, if in any way, this is affecting your S. euptera - pH 7.4 or thereabouts is not out of feasible range.

However, a pH of 6.0 isn't terrible either - as long as you have enough KH to maintain 6.0 and it doesn't (like mine did not so long ago - amazingly without any fish falling ill from it!) fall to pH 4.0.

--
Mats

[andywoolloo]

I will get KH and GH tests today. I have never tested for that.

and like you said with the 6.0 , i knew that was ok for them but my fear was it dropping below that , if I failed to test it for awhile or something, is why I started with the crushed coral.

[MatsP]

The KH is what keeps your pH from falling. So if that's high enough (more than about 35 ppm or 2dKH), you won't have a problem... If it falls low, you need a KH buffer, either in form of a powder or as crushed coral or similar.

--
Mats

[Birger]

I am thnking of sucking the majority of the sand out and readding just the new black tahitian moon sand and see what happens.

I think I would stabilize what you have going first before making any major changes like this.

They do not seem really interested in food which is strange also

That is strange...one thing is that as they get older they may get grouchier any time you make a major change and sort of sulk for awhile.

Birger

[andywoolloo]

Alright, I will not do anything with the substrate. I was waiting for advice on that for sure. Plus the PH is fine really 7.4 /7.6 .

I needed to rinse that sand anyways and dry it before true winter sets in and we have no sun for 4 months.

Right now half are right side up and half upside down. They look quite happy. I mean I know they invert quite alot just thought strange they were inverting for so long.

Also in regards to the sulking I did move things around at the same time I added some crushed coral. So there you go. Upside down pouting maybe? The common is happy as a clam, never a change of behaviour, seems quite happy to get first dibs on the food and is gracefully swimming around them.

They still chase and bicker when one upside one bumps into another upside one.

Thanks you guys, no substrate change and will get tests for KH and GH and post later on tonight.

Also now that the bottom isn't completely black sand as before , it's more way lighter due to the crushed coral is maybe another reason they are avoiding it I thought.

Definitely looks lighter.

[Birger]

Also now that the bottom isn't completely black sand as before , it's more way lighter due to the crushed coral is maybe another reason they are avoiding it I thought.

That is a definite possibility they are avoiding it if they are used to it being darker and there is now a difference.

[andywoolloo]

o.k. on the KH it took 4 drops to turn 4 drops to turn yellow and on the GH it took 7 drops to turn green.

So GH 7 drops = 125.3
KH 4 drops = 71.6

what do you think? Course last week I added the crushed coral. Like I do about every 6 months or so. Just a bit.

[MatsP]

I'd leave it as it is. Let the fish get used to it. Monitor the KH and pH (also check the KH of tap-water [or whatever you fill the tank with]).

If the pH starts to drop, you can get KH buffer to add to the tank - it's usually meant for the marine keepers, but works OK in the low dose you need for freshwater to be stable. I use Salifert KH & pH buffer - for the simple reason that the shop I use carries that brand (and it's probably a mix of, essentially, finely ground coral and baking soda, with a much higher price-tag, but I use so little that it's not that important - the 200g tub I got has lasted over a year).

--
Mats

[andywoolloo]

thanks.

tap water KH is 3 drops to turn yellow so 53.7

[MatsP]

I would think that if you make large enough and frequent enough water changes with KH 3 water, you should be OK - of course, you need to monitor that closely and if you plan on "missing" a water change, you may want to add some KH buffer somehow.

--
Mats

[andywoolloo]

o.k. thanks. Sounds good.

[andywoolloo]

Three months ago this post was about the possibly abnormal behaviour of my syno euptera after an additon of some sand coloured crushed coral. I had spread it mostly over the top of their black sand and even when I mixed it in it was still very light in colour now compared to the black. They stayed upside down and off of it.

I wasn't sure at that point if the change in behaviour was due to a ph change or the sand.

Well 3 mos later i can safely say it's the "looking different" substrate that had them acting different.

I finally rinsed and added more black sand to the whole tank, so it is now quite black again. They are all off the sand and upside down again, it's been 24 hrs and still the same. As before , when the substrate got considerably lighter in colour, they stayed off of it for a good week I think. At last a few days to a week. That's some memory or something.

Even the pl*co only came down to eat his fruit and veg then went back up on a piece of driftwood.

I just find it very interesting how their brains work. Or even that they are working and that substrate and furniture placement in tank and colour mean a very great deal to them. It's amazing really.

Just wanted to share the final outcome of this thread. I had always thought originally I had added too much crushed coral and this made them act like them like, but apparently not. They are very affected by any changes in their environment, well, makes sense I mean, I am too to a certain extent. Takes time to get used to things and not many like change i guess.

[Carp37]

My corys are sort of like this- the smallest, unintentional shift in tank decor has them being hyper for several days, as though they're lost and desperately trying to find their way home, which has made me speculate as to how they "learn" a home environment. After a few days they settle down again and return to being motionless most of the time!

[andywoolloo]

yeah, fish are amazing.

When I move my bettas decor around tho he could care less. He cooly peruses the tank at his leisure, inspecting everything slowly and methodically , then when he is done he goes to usual location and stares at me.