Warranty help with legal issues, any lawyers/solicitors?

[grokefish]

Right I dont have a specific problem but know of a company that basically dismisses any faults with their products and just says its down to the manufacturer.

I always thought the risk lay with the distributor/retailer not the manufacturer, that is what they are making their profit for, taking the risk on the products.

I am aware I may be completely wrong on this, can anyone clarify this for me please.

[PlecoCrazy]

I deal with IT stuff and buy from distributors, if its outside the DOA period; roughly 7-15 days; then your left to deal with the manufacturer. If its not defective and not opened then you have 15-30 days depending on the distributors policies. I don't stock much and order as I need but if I ordered 5 HP printers and it took me 2 months to sell the last one and the last one was defective the only option I would have as a reseller is to deal with HP directly or the customer. My distributor has no part in it once its outside of their terms. I of course caring about customer service take care of the problem if the need would be.

A retailer will typcically have there own set of terms for returning merchandise but anything outside of their terms they do not need to assist you. Many things have gone that way lately. The manufacturer is typically the one the risk goes back too. Many retailers refer you directly to the manufacturer as they are better able to help you diagnose the problem than the store selling it. If it needs replaced then it is left up to the manufacturer or a 3rd party warranty provider if you purchased an extended warranty that wasn't from the manufacturer.

As far as legality I am not qualified. This is just how it works in my environment. The risk goes to the manufacturer, obviously if a company sells crap products that puts them at the risk of losing customers but thats about the extent of it. There are always exceptions to everything, just giving you my experience.

[grokefish]

Thanks, anyone else?

[Bas Pels]

Under EU regualtions, the seller is the one who is to blame. After all, did you do business with the importer? Nope, you did business with the seller

The seller can than blame the wholeseller, who can blame the importer/manufacturer, but that is not your problem

However, in case the seller is a $#%^, you will not be able to reason with him, and than you will have to start legal actions. These are costly - and from what I've seen, even more costly in the UK. Chanses are, it's easier not to go to this shop anymore, and bring your custom elsewhere. But legally, the seller is to blame.

The normal warranty period depends on the kind of product you bought, but this is rarely less than a year for non-food items

What I wrote differs a lot from what PlecoCrazy wrote, but I think he wrote about the US situation, and the UK is in the SU (whether you like it or not. I understand feelings are sometimes a bit mixed, but please let's not go into that argument ;) )

[grokefish]

The problem is i know of a company that wholeheartedly believes that it has nothing to do with them and all the blame lies with the manufacturer.

The way I understood it was that (this is theoretical as I have had no problem with them) that the retailer had to provide a replacement and then it was their problem to argue with the manufacturer and claim their costs back.

Obviously the retailer has more 'pull' with the manufacturer as they would like the retailer to stock their products.

I thought this was the case to protect the final customer i.e you and me.

[MatsP]

Not that I feel that I have more knowledge in this matter than Bas, but I worked with the customer support organization for a computer parts manufacturing company, and the rule there was that the product was to be returned to the seller. It is then their "problem" to deal with wholesaler and manufacturer.

We would sometimes HELP the customer explain to the seller that they have to sort te situation out.

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Mats

[grokefish]

Is this for real Mats because I feel this particualar company is ripping a lot of people off.

They have never ripped me off because I have a good relationship with them but not so good for others.

[TP]

Its covered by the Sale of goods act, which states that it is the person that sold it to you's responsibility. Your contract of sale is with the seller and not the manufacturer.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentc ... /DG_182935
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/ ... 2-pb1-l1g2

Interestingly the sales of goods act protects the purchase of goods over their expected useful life so for example if a £1000 TV failed after 2 years and it only had a years warrenty you could seek redress from the seller even then, as you would reasonably expect a £1000 TV to have a life of more than 2 years.

I think a lot of companies don't know their obligations under this act and therefore try to palm people off back to the manufacturers.

[MatsP]

Yes, absolutely for real. The "chain" works both ways: manufacturer makes something, sells it to a distributor/wholesaler, who sells to the shop that sell to the end user, and if there's something wrong, the end user takes it to the shop, who replaces/repairs/refunds the product. The shop will then get compensation from the wholesaler/distributor and the manufacture fixes it up with the wholesaler.

Of course, there is a slight hitch in this scheme: If the shop or wholesaler didn't get the product from the proper channel (e.g. grey import or "fell off a lorry"), then the proper channel will not reimburse the shop - they will have to take that up with the chaps in Hong Kong or the chap down the pub that "picked up" the "fallen off the lorry" stuff... And of course, these type of suppliers may not always be entirely cooperative in this sort of situation... And if you bought half a container full of not so perfect goods from HK, it may be difficult to return them without a lot of cost...

Of course, SOME companies have agreed that they take responsibility for warranty/service issues. For example, my VAX wet-vacuum [great for aquarium spills, by the way], has a big sticker on it saying "In case of problem do not return to shop, contact <phone number>". But if there is no clear statement like this, then the shop is responsible. [And if the "do not return to shop" is not working out, I'm pretty sure you can go back to the shop and say "not working out, you fix it" and be legally protected].

All of this assumes "private" consumer rather than "business to business" transactions - for examble, if IBM is buying computer parts from a manufacturer, they may decide that it's better to get 10% lower price, and deal with warranties on part X themselves, than to pay 10% more. In short business to business deals are not covered by the same strict rules, and it's possible for the two companies to agree on the terms of the transaction. But this probably involves thousands of pounds of lawyers fees to write up the contract.

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Mats

[PlecoCrazy]

I know that everybody dreads dealing with a manufacturer but its not usually that bad of an experience. I have found most go out of their way to make sure you are happy with their product. Many times I've gotten a newer improved model out of the deal. I get you like to take it back to the shop but really you could have your phone call done and over with before you even got done driving to the shop. I used to feel the same way but I have found that their are many advantages of dealing with the manufacturer directly than going back to the point of purchase. Yah, not every manufacturer is great but most are. Especially in the aquarium industry I have found most to be very reasonable to deal with.

If you believe another company is ripping someone off and putting the manufacturer at blame why not call the manufacturer instead of the lawyer legal stuff first. I believe a manufacturer would care greatly if someone is misrepresenting their product and/or image. They aren't just going to sit around and let someone smear their reputation if they are aware of it. IMO

[MatsP]

I believe a manufacturer would care greatly if someone is misrepresenting their product and/or image. They aren't just going to sit around and let someone smear their reputation if they are aware of it. IMO

I agree with this as a general rule. But the manufacturer is perfectly within their rights to push back and refer you to the shop. As I said, we often helped our customers with explaining the situation to their supplier - since the size and structure of our company, we couldn't just deal directly with the customer except in special cases (such as when the shop has gone bankrupt). There are complex reasons behind this principle, which I'm not going to discuss here in detail.

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Mats

[Bas Pels]

Not that I feel that I have more knowledge in this matter than Bas,

As I know nothing of UK law, only about dutch law, and therefore a bit of European law, you could be wrong, Mats

However, your somewhat more practical experience is quite in line with my more (nescessarily) theoretical approach