need id for rineloricaria sp

[Amazoniensis]

hello
i need to put my hand on the full name of this Rineloricaria sp. (1M&1F)
I know this was caught in Brasil (probably near manaus but not sure)







thanks for looking, best regards.

[Amazoniensis]

Rineloricaria latirostris

?

[Mod edit: Use clog-tags for easy access --Mats]

[Norman]

Hi,

Unfortunately I cannot see any picture here at work (image provider is blocked).
But with a distribution of Manaus it won't be a Rineloricaria species sensu Isbrücker et al.
All Rineloricaria are distributed in the drainage of the Parana riversystem. Amazon species mostly were assigned as Hemiloricaria or Leliella, but with a poor classification of the genus Leliella.
If I remember this thread at home I will have a look for this.

so long
Norman

[MatsP]

If it's from anywhere near Manaus in Brazil, then it's almost certainly not R. latirostris, since that fish is from the south of Brazil, in the Sao Paulo area.

According to this post and the pictures of your fish:
http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... f=13&t=750
1. Your fish has odontodes over the entire head.
2. The ventral area is fully covered with plates.
It's not clear to me if the tail has long enough extensions to count as caudal extensions or not...

It think, however, that your fish is

Hemiloriciaria

rather than

Rineloricaria

.

Unfortunately, the species are hard to distinguish. An exact capture location would be great.

[Just tried to submit my reply, and Norman's reply came up - we don't even have a single entry for the genus Leliella, so I can't really commment on that. Norman is much more of an expert than me on the subject of Loricariinae - he runs the www.loricarinnae.com website!]

--
Mats

[MatsP]

Right, looking up Leliella, it seems like it has only one species, which we have under the name

Rineloricaria heteroptera

. [We use the Catalog of Fishes as the "what name is valid for this species", and CoF doesn't currently recognise Leliella - unfortunately, there isn't any institution that decides what is the current valid name, but different authors pretty much have to decide when they write a paper as to what name is valid right now, based on what they read in the research for the paper].

(This also sort of contradicts the "all Rineloricaria are from southern Brazil")

Edit: I have updated the Synonym table so that we now at least have the SYNONYM of Leliella heteroptera!

--
Mats

[Norman]

Thanks Mats!

But the thread with the translation of achim is unfortunately not accurate.
Isbrücker said that Hemiloricaria always have a completely plated abdomen whereas the abdomen of Rineloricaria species could be fully plated, partially plated or naked. (Btw: 2 years ago at a visit in norway I got a Hemiloricaria species from Rio Nanay, Peru, showing an incomplete covered abdomen).
Second he said that Hemiloricaria species have a long filamentous extension of the upper caudal spine whereas an extension of the upper caudal spine at Rineloricaria species is short or even absent.

Since some month I am collecting data of all described Rineloricaria sensu Isbrücker et al. and nearly the half of this species have completely covered abdomen, the others partally ot naked. Same with of extension of the upper caudal spine. So both characteristics are not useful for distinguish the genera.
Instead of this the development of odontodes of mature males are a well defined characteristic, which fits more or the less.
Even here are some exceptions with Rineloricaria latirostris and its related Rineloricaria sp. aff. latirostris which are completely covered with odontodes as well as the so called glory whiptails (like Hemiloricaria fallax, H. melini and related) which don't have a complete area covered with odontodes but two thin rows of odontodes in front of the dorsal fin.

This also sort of contradicts the "all Rineloricaria are from southern Brazil"

Thats more or the less right. There is a regional interference of the distribution of southern Hemiloricaria and northern Rineloricaria.

so long
Norman

[MatsP]

So, in summary, there is no easy way to tell Hemiloricaria from Rineloricaria, or have I misunderstood something?

--
Mats

[Norman]

Hi Mats,

There is no accurate defined characteristic which totaly exclude the other genus.
But if you will have a look at the species mostly its very easy to say if Rineloricaria or not. This is because Rineloricaria are more chunky and Hemiloricaria more slender. But the difference between the genera in the ratio of body width at the gill opening or at the base of pectoral fins to the total length is not recorded yet.

The broadness together with the coverage of the abdomen, the extension of the upper caudal spine, the odontode development of mature males and the distribution you can give an accurate statement to which genus a species belongs (If you know the exceptions ).

so long
Norman

[Norman]

Hi,

Very carefully I'd like to say Hemiloricaria nigricauda.
The body ratio as well as the (unique) colouration of the caudal fin fits.
Just the southern distribution in brazil of the species is a conflict to your mention 'Manaus'.

so long
Norman

[Jools]

If only we had pictures of such quality to identify all suspect loricariinae!

Jools

[Amazoniensis]

Huge thanks, i will try to take more photos ...