i could use some advice.

madmort0 · Post by **madmort0** » 26 Jun 2012, 19:26

i have a 4x2x2 120 gallon mixed malawi setup with sand substrate ad nothing more than rocks and 2 big spongefilters for decoration. i also have a standard 55 gallon with 1 misc. zebra and 6 yellow labs.
i have 5 yellow labs, 8 cynotilapia sp. hara,6 red shoulder peacocks, 4 O. lithobates, and 5 red empress and 3 "syno hybrids". in the 120gallon. all my fish were bought in the middle of feb as little more than eyeballs and tails up to 1 inch. now they are all 1-2,2.5inches . except the syno hybrids which are huge at around 3 inches.
that was my quick background. here is the situation i have got myself into. i have always wanted the synodontis multipunctatus, i found a group of 9-1inch and i bought them this morning. i moved my peacocks and the 3 syno hybrids into the 55, i put the 9 1 inch cats in the 120 this morning and did a total decoration change.

how many should i keep in the 120? and do you think i should grow the little guys out before i trust them around the biggerfish. its been a couple hours and i see no deaths, some interest but nothing bad yet. should i remove them ? i have a 29 i can throw one of the spongefilters in. and i also have a hob filter.
thank you for your time.

Post by **Birger** » 27 Jun 2012, 05:01

Welcome to PlanetCatfish.

You will enjoy these fish, a group of nine will look great.

To start, I will say what you should have done...one of the smaller tanks should have been a quarantine tank...keeping them in there for a few weeks, not only protecting all your others from disease but also a chance to make sure they are eating properly. The possible results of not doing this can be disheartening when a die off occurs.

My reccomendation would have been to use the 55 and once a quarantine period is observed could have added the peacocks...once they were bigger than they could have been added to the big tank.

Moving on...all of your fish have some growing to do and are not big enough to eat them or anything like that and would get a surprise if they did try. Probably the current interest is only curiosity.

Two things you need to do is to make sure there is more than enough cover for these fish to duck into, I like to use river rock in piles not just a few scattered here and there.

The second is to make sure they are feeding well and not being out competed for food...one of the best ways is to feed a half hour or so after lights out to give them a better chance. Once you get used to them and they grow some than they will be able to be fed during the day if you like, they really should be not to shy about feeding once they get used to you.

I do not know what syno hybrids you have but 3 inch is still fairly small for most, so look for much more growth yet depending on the species involved, we could give a better estimate with a picture.

Birger

madmort0 · Post by **madmort0** » 27 Jun 2012, 13:36

thank you . i have misplaced my camera., but when i find it ill throw some pics up.

madmort0 · Post by **madmort0** » 27 Jun 2012, 15:52

i have spent quite a bit of time researching my cichlids . i apologize for not doing as much on the cats. they are beautiful though. another quick question. are there spines hard now? or are they soft? i was reading your response and i was wondering if that was what you were reffering to when you said teh fish might be in for a surprise. and day two. i have seen a couple move about but mostly they are hiding under the base of the spongefilters. any diet worries i should be aware of? i fed my less than one inch cichlids baby size pellets and they took fine. i have some small sinking pellets. would they be fine? or should i buy food specifically for them?

madmort0 · Post by **madmort0** » 28 Jun 2012, 03:28

i hadn't thought about an id for the hybrids. i took a few pics of the 2 tanks and the camera is about as crappy as my picture taking skills. so i apologize if the pics are painful. you should be able to see the entire fish log of pics. you can kinda get an idea of what im up to and if you follow the order, maybe a timeline. maybe you can see what you need to out of the pics. i hope so. i like my tanks a lot and i enjoy them every day.theres a couple videos too. one is of the hybrids buzzing the top of the water.
http://s1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff4 ... ish%20log/

Post by **Birger** » 28 Jun 2012, 06:37

Your hybrids are similar to these be ready for 7 or so inches in length possibly.

are there spines hard now? or are they soft? i was reading your response and i was wondering if that was what you were reffering to when you said teh fish might be in for a surprise.

Yep hard, and combined with venom glands a nasty combo.

As far as feeding,they eat most foods...frozen foods such as mysis shrimp are great and when older you can throw in whole shrimp, shelled is better but not completely necessary, comical and good exercise for them as they will chase each other around for the peices of shrimp. Keep in mind they will overeat(like most synos)

I would bet that your new little synos are very similar to , care and breed the same and are continuously misidentified. Grandiops was described in 2006 so this is a fairly recent thing.

Birger

madmort0 · Post by **madmort0** » 28 Jun 2012, 13:38

cool. ty again. one of the ways to tell them apart is there dorsal fin? and mine are too small to tell at this point? are they similarly priced? thanks again birger. i see you are all over on this site. im glad you have helped me. tyvm. any thing you recommend i should read?
i dont doubt you im just curious. what made you say mine might be grandiops not multipunctata.
when i found these little guys i asked if they were pure, and the guy said he bought them from a local fish club a few years back and he had no reason to believe they were anything else. it doesnt matter to me either way, i think they are both attractive fish. and thanks for the id on the hybrids. they are attractive fish too with more character than i could hhave asked for. they buzz the top of the tank when they are hungry. its the neatest thing to watch.

Richard B · Post by **Richard B** » 28 Jun 2012, 15:42

The way to distinguish grandiops and multipunctata is by the eye diameter as as % of snout length and number of rays in the pectoral fins.

Most fish offered as multis are actually grandiops, but the grandiops name is not well known commercially. This means when most people talk about multis, it's actually grandiops they are on about. (similar to Petricola/Lucipinnis confusion)

madmort0 · Post by **madmort0** » 28 Jun 2012, 17:25

how big do they need to be to be able to tell the differance? and the number of rays is 8 in the multipunctatas and 7 in the grandiops? and i really do appreciate the advice/help/guidance. im sure im just another new guy asking too many basic questions and im sure this is rather tiring for you.

Post by **Birger** » 29 Jun 2012, 00:36

how big do they need to be to be able to tell the differance? and the number of rays is 8 in the multipunctatas and 7 in the grandiops?

You could tell the difference now and the best way to do it is with a good picture of the pectoral fin...easier said than done.
Remember it is one hard ray and then 7 or 8 soft rays not counting the forked ends.

im sure im just another new guy asking too many basic questions and im sure this is rather tiring for you.

Not a problem...your questions are far from out of line, it is always a good thing when someone comes in with a genuine interest for syno's.

Birger

madmort0 · Post by **madmort0** » 29 Jun 2012, 16:57

i think ill have to wait for the fish to grow up a bit or until i upgrade my camera to make a proper id.

i could use some advice.

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