Cochliodon or suttoni?

[HenkeP]

As topic, anyone able to tell me what it is?

[matthewfaulkner]

It looks like a Panaque suttonorum, to me.

[rob rensen]

Indeed a suttoni....the suttoni has a longer nose profile then the cochliodon

[Jools]

Indeed a suttoni....the suttoni has a longer nose profile then the cochliodon

Hi Rob,

Just wondering about the knowledge behind this statement. I was unaware of this difference, so wonder if you could expand on it?

Cheers,

Jools

[rob rensen]

Indeed a suttoni....the suttoni has a longer nose profile then the cochliodon

Hi Rob,

Just wondering about the knowledge behind this statement. I was unaware of this difference, so wonder if you could expand on it?

Cheers,

Jools

if you study many pics of the two species you can see the difference between the profiles of the head; the difference is obvious

[matthewfaulkner]

I look for 3 things between the two species (the second two are more subjective).

1. Snout/head profile - Panaque suttonorum has a shorter snout and more rounded, dome like, head shape. Panaque cochliodon has a more elongated snout and has supraoccipital hump, tending towards a more 'angular' head.

2. Body odontodes and plates - Panaque suttonorum have a more armoured appearance. Their lateral row of odontodes look more prominent, as do the scutes/plates. Panaque cochliodon seem to generally have a more smooth appearance.

3. Body colour - Panaque suttonorum has a greyer body colour, whereas P. cochliodon is blacker/darker.

Panaque suttonorum



Panaque cochliodon

[Jools]

So, I spent the past hour reading the Panaque revision and I think I get it. Although reading the posts above there is a discrepancy in terms of snout length. Are we agreed that in laymans terms, in

Panaque suttonorum

, the distance from the eye to the tip of the snout is shorter than in

Panaque cochliodon

?

I am coming at this for something that works at all sizes of fishes - it appears to me the supraoccipital hump is much easier to spot in larger fishes.

Jools

PS We are also assuming that they come from the "right" localities for this ID and I've still to see a 2" P. suttonorum which I would dearly like to see to match back to Schultz's description.

[The.Dark.One]

So on that basis, this is P. suttonorum?:

http://www.scotcat.com/thedarkone/loric ... liodon.jpg

[matthewfaulkner]

Are we agreed that in laymans terms, in

Panaque suttonorum

, the distance from the eye to the tip of the snout is shorter than in

Panaque cochliodon

?

In general, I agree with this. But having just browsed through the revision, in table 3, the snout length is recorded and only differs, on average, by 2mm. Assuming the two pictures I posted are correct, perhaps my perception of the differing snout length is due to the incline and shape of the head and snout (which I do think is a definite difference).

This picture shows a good comparison of the two, P. suttonorum at the top.

Image from here - http://www.plecoclub.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1578

[HenkeP]

Here are some more pics.

[Jools]

In general, I agree with this. But having just browsed through the revision, in table 3, the snout length is recorded and only differs, on average, by 2mm. Assuming the two pictures I posted are correct, perhaps my perception of the differing snout length is due to the incline and shape of the head and snout (which I do think is a definite difference).

This picture shows a good comparison of the two, P. suttonorum at the top.

Image from here - http://www.plecoclub.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1578

I should have been clearer. What I meant was distance on the screen in 2D. In 3D with the body of a fish to measure, you're going to get the results in the paper. I tend to do a lot of fish ID in 2D!

That's a great link, thanks.

Jools

[Unungy]

Hi

I also would like to add some differences I've noticed.

4. The dorsal fin on the panaque Cochliodon is more elevated than panaque Suttoni.
5. The blue eye on the Suttoni is not as dark as the Cochliodon
6. The size of them is also different for adult specimens, Suttoni reaches a 19-22" and I haven't seen any Cochliodon bigger than 12"

I have attached some pictures from both species that will help to identify some outlined differences.

[Unungy]

Panaque sp Suttoni

[Unungy]

Panaque sp Cochliodon

[HenkeP]

Any tip on what to feed these guys? Tried cucumber, sweet potatoe, zuccini and algae waffers, but he doesn´t even touch this stuff.

[Unungy]

I am surprise that they don't eat, Cucumber and Zucchini is their favorite.
How long has it been? I will be concern about its health. Is there anything else that you would like to share?

[HenkeP]

Yeah, I was a bit surprised as well, after reading up on some threads about them. But now he has started to gnaw on the driftwood in the tank, so there´s a whole lot of "remains" after him that I didn´t see before. He also tries the algae waffers sometimes, and did enjoy zuccini last time I tried. So my best guess is that he was stressed out and refused to eat after the long travel..

And when I feed the discus in the tank with shrimps, he goes crazy! Throws himself over anything that falls to the bottom.. Not sure that shrimps are supposed to be a large part of his diet, I feed the discus not more than they will eat, without anything falling to the bottom of the tank. Rather feed them a few extra times instead than risk his health..

[Unungy]

Glad he is doing better. Keep up the good work.

[HenkeP]

Thanks. Will do!

[HenkeP]

Just thought I´d let you guys know that now, some 6 months later, he really enjoy the algae waffers, eats about 10-15 of them each day.. He was sitting on the front glass the other day, and he has a really nice and round belly.

[Chanin09]

I have a chance to compare the teeth formation between two species.