Odd looking finless synodont, fin issues

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Reddi
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Odd looking finless synodont, fin issues

Post by Reddi »

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i hope this image posts. this fish has come into my family. i am guessing it is syno robbianus. From what I understand the original owner gave it to the elementary school because she thought it looked creepy. So my mother-in-law, the school librarian, took him in and he was very active and appeared healthy in every way except he had fin stubs instead of fins. Eventually my mil gave him to my teenage daughter who had a 30 gallon tank and he seemed to like that-- quite lievely, places to hide, fish to eat. Never seen little neon tetras disappear under such mysterious circumstances. Suffice to say he is confined with two silver dollars and they seem to get along. But he looks so tattered with his lack of fins. Now he almost looks like he's pulled off a layer of skin, too. Again- his behavior is normal. its just his owtward apperance that looks odd.

Idon't know what is causing this or if there is aniything I can do to help the fish. My knowledge of keeping a tank running goes back to the Petsmart. I ask there, they tell me. Some might be sage advice, some not. So I looked aroundtheweb and found you guys.
Last edited by Reddi on 14 Feb 2015, 12:51, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Odd looking finless sonidont,fin issues

Post by Marc van Arc »

Hello and welcome to PC.

It could be that it was born this way (meaning without fins)? It looks healthy to me, but of course I can only use the picture as a reference.
Nevertheless, Synos are pretty hardy. Did you have a look at this thread: http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =8&t=41416
So there's hope.
Also, there are a lot of Syno enthousiasts on this forum, so expect some more replies to help you out.
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Re: Odd looking finless synodont, fin issues

Post by Reddi »

I did see that amazing thread! I went to that poster's site, too, but I can't read the French. Still, just following the photos was encouraging. I have been looking at threads here to see if there were similar stories to mine,but could not find any. I did find out there is a lot of terminology with which I'm quite unfamiliar. My home aquarium knowlege is 'what you learn from the Petsmart guy', which isn't saying much, but I am trying to learn more. Thank you for responding.

I don't think he was born this way as he will occasionally start to grow in fin..then it goes away again. He swims like a short, fat,eel and he does move pretty fast. I am sorry for the bad typing as I'm typing on my iPad and it's a little awkward.

I forgot to mention in the first post that this fish is at least twenty years old, possibly older. My daughter is away at grad school so the care of this critter falls to me.
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Re: Odd looking finless synodont, fin issues

Post by Birger »

This is a thread that can help you I hope....http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =8&t=41524

I would try a diet change as per that thread and maybe a bacteria treatment.

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Re: Odd looking finless synodont, fin issues

Post by Reddi »

I feel rather dim. I'm not understanding a lot of the info in that thread. Algae growing is desirable In a tank? I keep trying to get it out. It does grow back quickly. I have been feeding store bought tropical fish flakes and pellets, along with algae wafers that do have algae in the ingredient list but it's way down past a load of other stuff. I did dump a shelled pea in their tonight and the syno went nuts...he came right out of his lair and wiggled around ( he is finless on one side so his movement is awkward) until he got it. Scarfed it right down. I never realized you could put veggies ( other than aquatic plants) in the tank. After reading that thread, although it is hard to understand it all, it does seem we can do better with diet. Though as I said earlier he's over twenty years old so he must be pretty hardy.
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Re: Odd looking finless synodont, fin issues

Post by Birger »

Though as I said earlier he's over twenty years old so he must be pretty hardy.

This and the other thread I steered you to just proves how hardy these fish can be...BUT that is no reason to keep them in poor conditions or with fish that beat them.(not saying this is what you are doing)

Really with most Synodontis it is a matter of good food, good water conditions and not being thrown in with rough fish because they can take a beating...with yours I was thinking there is a problem with some kind of bacteria eating the fins (or maybe a couple of silver dollars).

Also a more varied diet will help any fish...I wanted you to see in the other thread just how much.


Yours is probably supposed to be a (below) like you mentioned or a
PB200368 (2).jpg
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Re: Odd looking finless synodont, fin issues

Post by Reddi »

I doubt it's the Silver Dollars, as he's had this fin problem from back when my mother in law had him 22 years ago. He's been in several tanks with a variety of fish-- my mil's school' tank, her own tank, then my daughter's first tank (about ten years ago- a ten gallon), then the 30 gallon my daughter got later. I've not seen them beat up on him, though they could be. But the fin problem was there even when he was with black tetras. He is rather aggressive himself-- I guess it's being territorial. But he will go after other fish- So far the Silver Dollars are holding their own against him (nothing else seems to).

When you said a bacterial treatment, I"m assuming you mean some form of benebac? I put some stress zyme in there today, which claims to have beneficial bacteria (unless you meant an anti biotic?) I also got some tank test strips and the results looked not so good but I'm not quite sure what to do about them. No3 was low (very) but NO2 was high (I'm going by a color chart on the strip package). PH was a little acidic, about 6.5. Carbonate Hardness was low, but General Hardness was very high. Again, this catfish has had the same problem in different situations, so I expect the fin issue is not related to this, but I doubt it helps. As far as what it should be, I'm just going by the package insert for the test strips (I did notice in the other thread folks saying some of these numbers don't really matter).

The tank didn't have any live plants in it, so I bought one for the tank hoping that would also help. I'm a little afraid if I change too much at once, it won't be a good thing either. The tank temp was about 68 which might be a little cool. I also bought a new heater to replace the one I think no longer functions (given the water temp is close to my house temp). I also got some ciclid pellets as I noticed people saying they were good in the other thread, plus some shrimp pellets, to give some variety to his algae wafer/tropical fish food diet. My daughter is in New Zealand now and though I've exchanged emails about the tank we don't have as much contact as would be helpful. She never was concerned about the fin issue, given he'd been like that for so long, but when I saw a photo of what a syno ought to look like I figured there must be something I can do to assist. He does have ONE beautiful fin (like in the photo you posted directly above) on one side. I didn't catch that side in the photo I posted. The rest of the fins are basically not there. Just stubs.
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Re: Odd looking finless synodont, fin issues

Post by jodilynn »

My guess (and I am by no means an expert here) is that there is some kind of deep infection (fin rot) going on here with this poor fella. I am surprised he has never had fins (from what I read) so that makes me inclined to believe he will never recover? But you want to try, right? I mean, look at Stine's poor little Albert! Look at how far he has come! That ought to inspire you! :YMAPPLAUSE:

Do you have a hospital tank? Can you isolate him? A 10 gallon tank with a hood and a heater shouldn't really cost you more than $25 and maybe a small cave for him to hide in will help. No gravel, no other décor. A sponge filter in the corner will aid in the filtration (no carbon as it will filter out any meds).

Do you have a reliable Local Fish Store (LFS) other than Petsmart? Thankfully we have a great one here where I live and I'm really lucky, as they have saved many of my fishes with their sage advice! LFS also have better medications.

The water quality is also an issue, less than pristine water conditions will not allow the situation to improve. 68 degrees is much too cold for any tropical fish. The water needs to be in the mid 70s, so at the very least a new heater is necessary.

I have had very good success with Kanaplex (kanamycin). Raise the temp to about 80 degrees, and do six straight days of treatments (not every other day like the package says). Again, it is more economical (and safer) to put him in his own 10 gallon tank than it is to treat the entire big tank. Makes daily water changes (necessary with the treatment) much easier too. I would think it would take more than just six treatments though, this infection has taken a deep hold on him. Drs. Foster and Smith may carry this medication ( http://www.drsfostersmith.com/ ).

Or...you could leave him alone, keep his new home very clean, regular water changes, monitoring, make sure the filters are rinsed out weekly and changed out monthly (but not all at once!), and keep a good diet going. :-BD

I feed my synos zucchini (which they LOVE), peas, and sweet potato. They will take big bites out of the zucchini, and I have observed my Featherfin chewing on the sweet potato. Peas disappear too. I have also put algae sheets in the tank which they eat heartily (but they make a mess so I don't do it very often). I have also had much success with Omega One frozen foods (bloodworms, and the Freshwater Community Formula; I also use the Marine Veggie Formula). Those are available at Petsmart. Most synos are omnivores who need both vegetable and meat in their diet. Pellets and algae wafers are good, but it would definitely not hurt to supplement his diet with fresh veggies (oh and the love melon too, cantaloupe seems to be a favorite) and frozen foods too.

Good luck! Let us know how things go! O:-) O:-) O:-) O:-)
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Re: Odd looking finless synodont, fin issues

Post by jodilynn »

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Re: Odd looking finless synodont, fin issues

Post by Reddi »

thank you! An update-- 1) new heater and thermometer running (I'm watching to make sure the heater thermostat is working-- I don't want boiled fish (or too sudden a temp change).

But as I was looking in, I noticed what appears to be fungus (the cotton wool variety) in a few small spots on the catfish-- fin stubs, and on that point ridge on the side of his head -- the bit that protrudes back behind the gills. it's very small and was not there (that I could see) yesterday. The photo posted above was taken the day I posted it (I took it for the purpose of posting it here). He looks okay fungus wise there. But he's definitely got some fungus and I don't know where it came from (can it come from the fresh food I put in? a few peas at this point).

The medication you recommend indicates it's good for bacteria and fungus-- so I can assume it will treat this? I am taking my youngest to a college class tonight and will be passing another pet store-- I can see if it's in there (it's another chain). As far as non chain stores in this area-- I'm sure some good ones are within twenty miles or so, but the only other local one is basically "shady jake's fish and pit bull emporium"- it's rather dirty and I'm not sure I'd get anything there. If I go into the city (closest- Philadelphia) I'm sure I can find a place I just am unsure how to tell if it's a place where folks know what they are talking about. I've been reading up on hard water and trying to better understand some of the terms I'm reading on threads here -- I also tested my tap water to see if it's just the tank needing more water changes but my tap water also registered hard (this surprised me as we don't get hard water stains in our sink or tub).

At any rate if I can't find the med at the pet store I'll order it when I come home tonight. I don't know how long these fish live- a web search said twenty years or so but "I read it on the web" is not reliable. He's past that at this point-- probably closer to 25 or more (given my mil had him at least 22 years ago and he was a used fish when she got him), so he might be getting close to his natural expiration date. But I still want to fix what I can.
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Re: Odd looking finless synodont, fin issues

Post by Birger »

They can live a long time, 25-30 years is very possible...usually what takes them out is a faulty heater or broken tank that sort of thing...

I missed the fact of the heater...synodontis do not do well in water under 70 F but generally mid seventies is lots...if you do turn the heat up do so slowly for this fish.
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Re: Odd looking finless synodont, fin issues

Post by bekateen »

Hi Reddi,
Reddi wrote:As far as non chain stores in this area-- I'm sure some good ones are within twenty miles or so, but the only other local one is basically "shady jake's fish and pit bull emporium"- it's rather dirty and I'm not sure I'd get anything there. If I go into the city (closest- Philadelphia) I'm sure I can find a place I just am unsure how to tell if it's a place where folks know what they are talking about.
By chance, would you have any time to Google these nearby stores before you drive in? Perhaps you can map their locations, read their reviews, and then even phone ahead to find out if they have the medication you are seeking. That might save you a lot of time, and make your trip more fruitful.

Good luck with your Syno. These are tough fish, but some tender loving care is always a sign of a good fish keeper.

Cheers, Eric
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Re: Odd looking finless synodont, fin issues

Post by jodilynn »

I don't think hard water will bother him, nor will a high Ph, synos I believe usually prefer hard water/high Ph situations. I have very hard water and my Ph is in the 8.23 range.

It's the nitrites/ammonia problems that lead to stress and disease, as well as the lower than ideal temperatures. A clean tank with proper temperatures and good food will help. BUT if he is getting an actual disease (fungus) that must be addressed. You can try the Kanaplex or maybe Pimafix (which is an all natural medicine made with tea tree oil, but it's effectiveness and safety are often hotly debated). Here is a link to the API website: http://www.apifishcare.com/product.php? ... OKUFeY5Bes

Yes, 25 years may be a loooong time for a syno, but I believe there are threads on here about fish (synos, raphaels, etc) that are well over thiry years old. I mean, if he's made it this far in that condition, I say go for trying to make his later years happy healthy ones!

I found this aquarium store in Philly: http://www.aquariumcenter.biz/. I wouldn't mind visiting there :-p .

Good luck! Please keep us updated! You're a good person for trying to help this poor guy! o:-)
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Re: Odd looking finless synodont, fin issues

Post by jodilynn »

OH salt you can add some aquarium salt to the tank as it will stimulate the fish's slimecoat too! Just make sure that you don't just dump it in the tank, mix it in water beforehand and slowly pour it in. One heaping tablespoon for every 5 gallons of water.
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Re: Odd looking finless synodont, fin issues

Post by jodilynn »

I also checked, the 6.5 Ph is within the acceptable range of either of the species Birger thinks he may be. :)
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Re: Odd looking finless synodont, fin issues

Post by racoll »

Just put him in tank on his own, give him some broken pots to hide under, feed him well with a varied diet, and change a third of the water three times a week. I guarantee that the fins will grow back in a matter of weeks.

Also, ditch the thick bed of gravel and replace with 0.25" of soft sand. The gravel traps dirt and creates toxic conditions for bottom dwellers like catfishes.
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Re: Odd looking finless synodont, fin issues

Post by Reddi »

thank you everyone! I found KanaPlex at a petstore about 12 miles north of me tonight, and spoke with a young man who also has synos (and was aware of this site). He found the Kanaplex for me and also recommend a hospital tank. I believe I have a five gallon tank around here so I didn't get one (I put the kanaplex in the 30 gallon) but that's on the list if I can't find the five gallon. I've fired off some messages to my daughter so I can get more info about where stuff is and what she did. She's in New Zealand so it's IMs on different time zones. She did seem to feel the fin issue is rather hopeless but dang it all, I want to get some fins on this guy. I also found a rather interesting (and unusual looking) food called Paradigm Herbivore-- anyone heard of it? it's by Paradigm Fish Food of Georgia. Looks better than Top Fin Fish Flakes. New heater is working-- tank is up to 72 degrees right now.
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Re: Odd looking finless synodont, fin issues

Post by racoll »

Medicines are not helpful unless you treat the underlying causes of the problem, which I suspect could be the following:

- poor water quality
- rotten substrate
- fin nipping
- poor diet
- cold water
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Re: Odd looking finless synodont, fin issues

Post by Reddi »

As the problem predated everything on the list except possibly poor diet (due to the regular pet store food) I don't think those are the underlying problems, though I'm sure they don't help. I've not seen any fin nipping at all and as mentioned above he had this problem well before he was in with the Silver Dollars. The other issues are being addressed as mentioned above. Thanks everyone for your comments... I truly appreciate it. I'll keep you posted. I'm reading now how to set up a hospital tank and I've got my daughter on an IM line to see what she's done in the past. I have raised the temp to 72, and just saw Birger's comments above which I'd missed before-- I hope I didn't raise the temp too quickly. I set the thermostat on the new heater to 72 and it seems to have done just that. If I read the comments correctly, over 70 but not too far over is the range I want. Hope I got that right. One step at a time and I hope his hardiness takes him through this as I learn what I ought to be doing.
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Re: Odd looking finless synodont, fin issues

Post by jodilynn »

How is he doing? Any improvement? Is the temp of the water up above 75 degrees?

Did you add any medicine? Or are you just keeping up with the water changes (clean water is important!) and the good food? Good luck with your little friend! I hope things are improving and I wish you BOTH the best! :-BD
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