Finally, it's about time...

[TwoTankAmin]

For a few days I have suspected I had one of my dads on eggs. I have not had a spawn from this group in over a year. So I am absolutely ecstatic to report I have an L173 on a spawn. I was finally able to see one egg for sure. I hope I have not just jinxed myself.

[stuby]

Congratulations Chris, I will keep my fingers crossed that all goes well!

Chuck

[bekateen]

Excellent. Good luck with the eggs!

Cheers, Eric

[flatfish]

Great work. Congratulations

[TwoTankAmin]

Just did a quick check. Dad let me see a lot more. I clearly saw there were wigglers. There was a pile of eggs that looked to be 12-15 in number. I am surprised there were not more. These fish get bigger than zebras or 236. The 236 seem to start spawning sooner than the other two and at a relatively small size compared to what size they are as mature adults.

Must be the season- getting spawns from these, 236s in two different tanks, L450s. I had a spawn from the 173b a while back. And the zebras act spawnerish but continue to disappoint.

I will learn a lot more about what is going on where very soon. I should have 5 -6 tanks up on the screened terrace and being stocked for summer growout/sales in about 10 days.

Apropos of nothing, my curiosity was active today. I wanted to know where the source of the Xingu was. So I used Google maps in satellite view and began working my way upriver from Altamira. About 20 minutes later (about 450 miles as the Macaw flies and 2 -3 times that as the fish swims) and feeling like I had paddled all the way, I found it. It begins with the confluence of the Rio Culuene and the Rio Sete de Setembro in Pequizal do Naruvôtu, State of Mato Grosso, Brazil.
https://goo.gl/maps/HuEwL5HdMPF2

[TwoTankAmin]

By way of an update- I went to feed the 173 tank last night and, when I turned on the light, there were two free swimming fry out and about. I plan to leave them in the tank with the adults. But, for this to be a real success, I need to see another spawn fairly soon.

I am getting close to moving a lot of fish around for the summer. I will get to see fish that have been unseen for many months.

[stuby]

Very nice.... hope they continue to spawn!

Chuck

[Tony4143]

Good luck Chris
-Tony

[TwoTankAmin]

I am not sure, but I think there is a trapping in progress - same cave, same male. I am seeing that vibrating from the mail and it appears as if there is a second tail I am seeing. I have fingers crossed. Since the first day or two after the last spawn went free swimming I have not seen a fry again. If I have another spawn I may pull the cave to a hatching tank so I can deal with any fry easier and more visibly.

[stuby]

Good news Chris..... only time I have seen the male vibrate like that there has always been a female in the cave with him. I will keep my fingers crossed!

Chuck

[bekateen]

Hi TTA,

Any update on the vibrating tail? I know with my L201 that can go on for a week before a spawn, but hopefully yours don't drag it out so long.

Cheers, Eric

[TwoTankAmin]

Only one fish today in the cave. He wont let me see if there are eggs.

[TwoTankAmin]

Sigh- false alarm. Empty cave. Drat!

[bekateen]

It's just a matter of time, buddy. Fingers crossed.

[stuby]

Often faults alarms are followed by the real thing...… so I am still crossing my fingers!

Take care,
Chuck

[TwoTankAmin]

I had a spawn for sure a while back as I reported at the start of this thread. My normal practice with spawns is to leave them in place and let the dad do his thing and then I let them grow in the breeder tank. Mostly this works fine. I do have a couple of tanks which are not fry friendly and I have to pull the spawn to save it.

I did not pull the spawn this thread reported. I did see a few free swimming fry in the tank the week after they left the cave and then nothing. Not a trace. Usually this is par for the course as my tanks are set up with a ton of cover. I expect fry to be well hidden. However, with a bit of effort over time i can usually spot one briefly or at lest part of one hiding. But not this time. I have not seen any sign of living fry for many weeks.

However, I like to think positively, so I continued feeding the tank for the adults I know are there and the imaginary fry. I also tend to do one or two cave checks in plecos tanks every day. Today I can confirm at least one fry is alive.

[bekateen]

One is better than none. Good start.

Cheers, Eric

[TwoTankAmin]

Here is what has me encouraged by this. many years back when I was relatively new to the hobby I joined a long gone fish forum that had a good fish chat. Back then some of the greats were online. It is how I first met Barbie who taught me a ton and who is why I have zebras.

Another member there who is my age had a 50+ year career in the hobby- he worked in or owned stores, importers and breeding facilities. He also did pets at times. This was in the era when I had a few tanks and was not interested in spawning anything. I had lf bn back then. They were spawning without my knowing it and most of the babies were on the menu, so I never saw them, until one day a spotted a couple. When I told this gent I had spotted a couple so I knew there were at least two. he then told me that if i saw two, there were a ton more I was not seeing. He was right.

I am hoping this applies now. Part of my problem in getting head counts is how I set up pleco breeding tanks. Space considerations impose limits on tanks sizes here. One of the few things I have become really good at in the hobby is overstocking safely. I seem to have the ability to get the maximum number of fish into a tank that is possible without the result being a disaster of some kind. One big part of this with plecos is to have tons of cover. the problem is it makes it impossible to spot fish and even harder to catch them. I have to completely break down a tank to the glass to nab fish.

I rarely know with any certainty how many fish of what sizes I have in my pleco tank until I do what I must to get a head count.

On the tangential topic of breaking down tanks to catch plecos. I have lost enough fish because I pulled an ornament or piece of driftwood from a pleco tank and put it into an empty bucket. When I went to return it, I would find a dead pleco on the bottom of the bucket. They are expert hiders at all ages and sizes. So I have a Rubbermaid container I fill with water at temp. I add a heater and an airstone, and everything I remove from the tank goes into this (I may need another bucket filled with water to hold tall wood). More often than not, when the time comes to put the tank back together, I would find one or more plecos on the bottom of the container and/or bucket. While I hate to lose any fish, trust me it is no fun to find a dried out zebra pleco or L173 fry dead like this. These guys are too valuable both economically and from a species preservation point of view.

[bekateen]

I do something similar but I don't bother with the heater. To empty a tank, I get a large camping once chest and siphon only 1-2" tank water into it, then I pile all the decorations in, of course inspecting them carefully. If a hijacking baby (or adult) falls off, it lands in the puddle of water. So far I haven't lost any fish yet doing this. Fingers crossed.

Cheers, Eric

[TwoTankAmin]

I often take 3 -4 hours from the time I take the tank apart to the time I put it back together. That is why I submerge everything. I use a lot of bare bottom tanks. Therefore I have no substrate to host any bacteria outside a filter. This gets done in the rocks and wood in the tank. So I prefer to keep everything wet and to be able to work slowly. Sometime its more than 4 hours before the tank is back together due to having other things to do in between. Some of my planted tanks are bare bottom, or close to it, and all the plants are in pots or attached to something. When I have to pull the plants, some need to go into deeper buckets 5 gal or 20 gal.

[TwoTankAmin]

I just finished a fry hunt in the breeder tank. There is good and bad news. The good news is I found 5 babies from .5 to .75 inches. They have been moved to the 20 long 173 grow tank with their 7 cousins which are much bigger.The bad news was there were only 5 babies. I am surprised as these fish are the largest of my Hypans.

My current total for 173: 10 wild breeding adults, 11 F1 sub-adults (from Germany I believe) which are morphing from zebralike to zig zag striping and 12 of my own F1 offspring. I grabbed a few shots of the babies in the specimen box. If they are usable, I will post them later since I have to put the tank back together after I finish cleaning it. The adults look great.

[TwoTankAmin]

I just completed a quick cave check in all the zebra and 173 tanks. I spotted a trapping in progress in the wild caught 173 tank.

Early on the spawns in this tank took place in the left half of the tank. Then they stopped for quite some time. When they resumed the spawns came from one cave on the far right end of the tank. This trapping is back to the left half.

About 10 days ago I had a brief trapping in the 173 F1 tank. I think it was just play since I think these guys still need more age/size. I had hoped to get lucky and have something by the end of this year. But I have always felt 2019 is more realistic.

I am sure I have just jinxed myself.

On the plus side, both 236 groups and the 450s are spawning.

[TwoTankAmin]

I have 3 of the offspring going out next week. I wanted to get a head count on the grow tank which I did this evening. i grabbed pics if the fry. i was pleasantly surprised to discover i had 13 instead of the 12 I expected. Apparently, when I last did this I thought I had lost one of the earlier fry which must have been hiding inside a piece of wood.

I just shot a bunch of pics as the fish were zipping around the tank. I can not be sure all 13 fish are in the pics nor how many times any given fish might appear. One thing that is clear to me is that 173 fry most certainly do not all start out life looking like 173. The fish in the pics are from at least 3 different spawns.

[TwoTankAmin]

One more pic.

[Jobro]

Congrats on these beauties Chris.

A little off topic, but are there pictures of your adult L173 on this forum? Especially that group of WC you got.

[bekateen]

They look terrific!

[TwoTankAmin]

I have pictures here viewtopic.php?f=5&t=42699
and here is a vid Rachel O'Leary aka msjinkzd shot

I still cannot believe I now have two spawning groups of 173.

[TwoTankAmin]

I have been noticing a number of my plecos acting spawnerish lately. I have seen 450s spawn, 236s- both groups spawn and the L173b spawned also. But I am most happy to report there is one of the L173 on eggs/wigglers. A few days back I had a trapping in another cave but I could not see any eggs so I must assume it was a bust. I suspected a spawn in this other cave but the dad would not let me see until 10 minutes ago.

I have been feeding a lot of Hikari frozen- Brine, Mysis, Brine gut loaded w/spirulina and blood worms plus the Repashy Spawn & Grow and Bottom Scratcher (both have about 20% Soilent Green mixed in). I am also seeing 3 of the F1 group's recent fry regularly as well.

I have never figured out why, but a lot of my plecos seem to spawn at the end of the year- Usually December but sometimes they start earlier by a week or two.

[Jobro]

I usually get more spawns in the winter period, too. Usually starting around december or january.

I thought it could be the increase in rainfall / snowfall and the correlating changes in atmospheric pressure?

[TwoTankAmin]

The favorable conditions continue in the wild caught 173 tank. Saw a trapping yesterday and eggs today. There is a second male in a cave acting spawnerish as well. I am hoping they are in one of those rhythms where they spawn for a while.

At this rate I should have some fish available for sale in the fall.