Ancistrus biotope.

[catfishbiotope]

I'm in the process of setting up a blackwater biotope for some Ancistrus dolichopterus. I want fish that come from the same general habitat and region (Rio negro).
So far I have white sand, driftwood, oak leaves...and blackwater
The stocklist so far:
Ancistrus dolichopterus
Cardinal tetras

What I want is:
a suitable hatchetfish sp. a blackwater Corydoras sp. Headstander sp. (not too rare or obscure, the variety of headstander is limited here)
I also need advice about blackwater cichlids. Most of the small to medium species that come from this region, the books recommend keeping in a planted tank...but all the descriptions of blackwater habitats say there is little or no vegatation? What does all this mean?
The species I can obtain are: Dicrossus filamentosus, Laetacara curviceps, Laetacara dorsigerus, Mesonauta festivus, Apistogramma cacatuoides and various other Apistos, Nannacara anomola, Blue rams (wild caught) and Bolivian butterfly cichlids. I may be able to get cupid cichlids also.
Thanks

[Silurus]

Check through this and see what is available for you.

What does all this mean?

True blackwater habitats are devoid of submerged vegetation. This is because there is almost no light that would make it through the water available for photosynthesis.

[catfishbiotope]

Thanks for that.
So blackwater cichlids don't need plants in their tank. Thats good, I wanted to stick to blackwater: "no plants" etc.

[flyinmike]

Check through this and see what is available for you.

What does all this mean?

True blackwater habitats are devoid of submerged vegetation. This is because there is almost no light that would make it through the water available for photosynthesis.

I have to disagree. While there are some areas may have little or no veg., even the site you linked to ( http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope_amazon_blackwater.htm ) states that there are both landbased plants which retain their leaves when submerged and echino. etc. in the Rio Negro. There are also a great number of low light plants that "grab" onto driftwood etc. such as Java fern and many Anubias varieties. Mike

[sidguppy]

the lowlight plants aren't native to blackwaters, though.

they grow on roots and such, mostly above the water, or in the spray-area of waterfalls and rapids.

they can survive with little light because they evolved beneath a dense canopy (as in overhanging trees)], NOT because the water is colored!

[flyinmike]

I went back and read and admit you are correct. None of the low-light plants I have info on even come from Brazil. I would like to point out though, the low-light conditions of most blackwater systems is not from the "colored water" but due mostly to shade from the canopy and the large leafed aquatic plants that grow to the surface and spread out. Also, since we are talking Rio Negro, there probably are rapids (at least 1/2 of the year) and possibly some falls too. Perhaps someone who has been there can chime in on this??

[Silurus]

the low-light conditions of most blackwater systems is not from the "colored water" but due mostly to shade from the canopy and the large leafed aquatic plants that grow to the surface and spread out.

Even under the intense tropical sunlight, the color of the water in blackwaters is so strong that light gets attenuated very rapidly (I could no longer see the white netting material of my net when it was just 10 cm under water while collecting in open blackwater pools).

[flyinmike]

Perhaps I'm looking at this backwards. Perhaps the reason the aquatic plants are so tall and big-leafed is to reach the surface ( and thus the light)

On the subject of the oak leaves. How do you prepare them for use. I assume they are dead leaves that have been dried?

[sidguppy]

fresh fallen leaves from an oaktree forest are the best. they're still fairly tough, but already a nice brown.

wash them a bit to get the doggy-wee wee off , you wouldn't want that in your tank!

[catfishbiotope]

Thanks for the help guys.
My experience of blackwaters and the Rio negro is based largely upon extensive internet reading and researching I've been doing lately, and also a few really good articles in aquarium magazines. Everything I can find mentions the lack of vegatation, due to the extreme acidity of the water...PH as low as 4 in places. My tank isn't nearly so acid, about 6.5 because really soft, acid water is too unstable. I may lower the PH as I get closer to attempting to breed something.
The list of Rio negro fish Silurus linked to above doesn't seem to have any Apistogramma sp. Why is this? I thought many Apistos came from that region? Is it that they're unlikely to be found in the Negro itself, more likely to be seen in forest streams and lakes?
Ancistrus dolichopterus isn't only the list either, could Fishbase or the Cat-e-log be wrong?

I collect the oak leaves in a local botanic garden, because the trees are labelled I give them a light rinse under the tap in warm water and then put them in the tank. I think boiling them removes too much of the tannin and humic acid. I just let them gradually become water logged and sink, just like in nature