Hormonal breeding Corydoras

cartouche · Post by **cartouche** » 16 May 2006, 21:36

Hello, I would need some advice. I have several "problematic" Corydoras species like reticulatus, sodalis and robineae, and after many unsuccessful attempts, I decided to spawn them hormonally. Fish specialists recommended carp pituitary to me, because it allegedly works best in catfishes, but my attempts were again unsuccessful. The pituitary obviously "works", but not in the way that I would need. The next day after application the fish are apparently active, but only platonicly. Another day the activity ends - and that's all. If I inject them repeatedly or if I elevate doses, a high percentage of them dies. Thus, the "pituitary way" is not the right way.

I suppose that no breeder spawning tropical fish hormonally would betray his secrets; however, the only thing that I would need to know is, if there is any possibility to spawn Corydoras with available hormonal preparates. I have namely never heard about hormonal breeding Corydoras. Corydoras that are normally offered are naturally bred species like sterbai, similis, duplicareus, nannus, elegans etc.

The fish that are routinely bred hormonally are some bigger species like Labeo, Synodontis, Botia and even Platydoras, but you will never see Corydoras reticulatus, sodalis or robineae in breeders' offers. All fish that are offered come from import. Of course, robineae is bred occassionally and there exist some reports about spawning C. sodalis, but the reports about C. reticulatus are very doubtful.

kim m · Post by **kim m** » 17 May 2006, 04:55

Well, I have never used any hormones in my breeding of Corydoras and I consider it a "no-no".

What's the challenge if you just use hormones and get them breeding? I can see that it's apparently not that easy, but I still consider it to be distastefull.

In my opinion no serious breeders use these things.

cartouche · Post by **cartouche** » 17 May 2006, 13:47

I am sorry Kim. Neither a "challenge", nor you will pay my checks for water and electricity that I have uselessly wasted because of the fish during the last years. And I must also include the dead fish that I lost during imitating the "guaranteed tricks" from the internet (All have one thing in common: they work only in tanks of their inventor). I simply won't repeat the useless attempts again and again. Furthermore, I don't have just the most luxurious conditions to take special care about each single species in a special small tank for many years.

Since I don't know the natural conditions, in which the fish spawn, the successful breeding is only a matter of chance and experience (and experience is a result of many chances, after all). It can happen tomorrow, but also as late as when I am a pensionist. Tell me the exact composition of water, temperature, food etc. near the localities, where these fish are found, and I will take it as a "challenge".

kim m · Post by **kim m** » 17 May 2006, 14:02

I still consider it bad taste, the reasons you give for using hormones makes me shake my head and I think you keep fish for the (IMO) the wrong reasons.

There are plenty of habitat info in the internet regarding Corydoras. For exapamle this site: http://www.corydorasforum.de there are water measurements included in the species descriptions where possible.

After all, breeding Corydoras is a matter of trial and error and a lot of patience.

cartouche · Post by **cartouche** » 21 May 2006, 00:43

Hmm...yes, there is a lot of info, but not just about the species that I want to breed. I wonder, why then people don't spawn Corydoras schwartzi, when there exist relatively detailed data about changes of temperature and chemistry in Rio Purus? It didn't help?

By the way, I just spoke with a man, who hormonally spawned Corydoras pulcher (yes, pulcher!), schwartzi, sodalis and robineae, among many others. He was a butcher by profession and his procedures thus weren't too sophisticated. He couldn't give me any detailed info about the doses he used. Since he said that with the pituitary he had spawned everything (after he found the right doses, of course, which has cost him some fish), it seems that my problem may be in the source of my pituitary. I will even try to do something with chemistry, and if it won't help, I will try some artifical hormones, because they are safer to the fishes.

kim m · Post by **kim m** » 21 May 2006, 12:30

I am truly disgusted by your methods. That's all I can say.

eupterus · Post by **eupterus** » 21 May 2006, 14:30

I am with Kim on this one, you describe your fish keeping like a business. Some fish are easier thasn others to spawn and thats life. If you dont like the species because of their difficulty to breed then keep the others. As for the wasted time and money along with fish deaths that you mention.. it happens living things die thats what happens. Use of hormones which are foreign to the species has been carried out for years and is in my opinions responsible for the demise in the quality of many of the cichlid species that we see today. Nature has spent 4 bn years developing strategies for a reason and it is only the in built arrogance of humans that think that they can control it. I am sorry if my opinion offends anyone but hormonal breeding along with artificail coloured dyes are my personal pet hates. I tried to keep out of this debate but i feel I needed to put my opinion across. In short hormal breeding in corydoras .... NO if they dont breed natuarally then dont breed them.

martijn · Post by **martijn** » 21 May 2006, 16:38

Hi cartouche,

For me, aquarium keeping and Cory keeping is a nice hobby, in which i do not consider hormonal breeding.

Maybe we can turn your subject into something positive, before you get a lot of posts from forum users who disagrea with you.

You wrote that you have difficulties with breeding. Maybe you van tell us what you already did, trying to let them spawn? Like what kind of water conditions you have tried, faking rainsshowers/dry periods etc etc. And are you positive of having "boys and girls"?

I hope that your answer will get you some usefull tips. I am a rookie in breeding cories, but there are a lot of pro's on this forum!!!

Bye Martijn

cartouche · Post by **cartouche** » 22 May 2006, 02:34

I think that going into details would make no sense. I have tried all "tricks" that I have found in the internet. And experiments with water chemistry only have a limited use in me, because from technical reasons, I can't collect enough rain water to make repeated water changes in the course of many weeks. Moreover, from economic reasons (not enough place in the room and also not negligible saving money for electricity), the bred fish are placed in 7 big 125-180 liter tanks. It works very well with some easily bred species like e.g. duplicareus or sterbai, who spawn massly (218 eggs from Duplicareus or 360 eggs from Sterbai in one tank, for example), but not in the species that need "special treatment" and the luxury to be kept in a small tank. I do hope that now you understand, why I don't want to continue in useless water changes anymore. I simply don't have good conditions for special care about such a sort of fish. The statement "if they dont breed natuarally then dont breed them" is really disputable from many reasons (what if they were to die out in nature? Would you resign and let them die out?).

Believe me that four years ago I would probably write the same like Kim or Eupterus, even one year ago I felt "ashamed" that I would try hormonal breeding, but the change of your opinion is only a matter of actual circumstances. I currently breed fish professionally and to keep up in the market, you must breed new and new species, because there are lunatics with their mega-rearing houses, who already occupy the most popular fish species and sell them for incredible prices that you can't simply compete with, unless you have a mega-room with 200-300 tanks. In several years, they can turn to species that I currently breed (although it is not too probable due to the difficulty of rearing) and I will have to give it up. Would you then send me some money, as a contribution to my social benefits?

Although I respect Ian Fuller as a breeder, who has probably bred the largest scale of Corydoras in the world, his "spawning logs" are like a good joke, because he doesn't tell the whole truth and he rather misleads other breeders. "The fish spawned after a 30% water change". Do you take it seriously, too? Well, but I have intensively bred Corydoras for 4 years only and I can still learn a lot of new experience. (And catch up with him in the future

kim m · Post by **kim m** » 22 May 2006, 05:46

If you don't have the room to keep fish in species tanks to give them the amount of attention needed, then you should keep some other species.

I canÂ´t see your point either with the case of them maybe being extinct in nature. Even "hard" species like robineae and guapore has been bred without drugging them silly.

...and for the reticulatus I'm giving them af good try this year...dry season lasting from now and untill august/september and then a couple og months rainy season.

cartouche · Post by **cartouche** » 22 May 2006, 10:25

Hi, Kim, I see that you really don't see the point! I simply like the fish! I don't breed fish that I don't like! And since I like them, I won't give it up!

Otherwise, good luck with the dry season! During the last "dry season" I lost two tukanos and currently I have only one pair, which means that I can practically sneeze at it.

panaque · Post by **panaque** » 22 May 2006, 10:43

Have you tried the 'natural hormone treatment'? This is where you add water from a tank in which an easy species has just spawned to that of the difficult species. The hormones released in the water during spawning often trigger the difficult species. This is a well reported trick so maybe you were ware of it already. From personal experience I can say that ever since I added a group of C. panda to my community tank the C. schwartzi, which had never spawned in 5 years, now spawn almost as regularly as the C. panda.

cartouche · Post by **cartouche** » 22 May 2006, 10:55

I have tried it X-times and I don't want to continue in it. It worked only between Corydoras sterbai-Corydoras similis. Yes, sometimes I observed that when sterbai spawned, robineae followed them and were similarly active, but that was everything. Generally I think that it works only between closely related species. You must have some miraculous water that you can spawn schwartzi with the help of panda! My pandas spawned in a tank shared with similis, atropersonatus and trilineatus, and none of these species was stimulated.

According to my experience, all these "guaranteed tricks" work only in the tank of their inventor (and in tanks of some happy individuals). Recently I read that Corydoras napoensis can be stimulated by changing pH or water hardness. One man wrote in the internet that he changed 50% water in his tank with napoensis (hardness 9 dGH) and the napoensis spawned several days later. I also have water having 9 dGH, I have changed 75% water already, hardness is at 2,5 dGH, pH at 5,4, and nothing happens. I also raised pH - as another man in the internet wrote - but again nothing. At the same time, the females look like if they were to explode! It seems that the only species that is stimulated are deckeri (C-3). The males very actively "attack" females, but they refuse them.

kim m · Post by **kim m** » 22 May 2006, 11:21

No I don't see your point. As mentioned earlier, breeding Corydoras is a matter of trial and error along with a lot of patience.

I have some C. undulatus that bred a couple of weeks after I got them I don't know what triggered the spawning and I haven't been able to get them going ever since that one time 1Â½ years ago. I have C-129 that laid 2 eggs one day and they fugused I have no idea what made them do that either. I have 22 species and managed to breed 8 of them, but I keep working with the last species regardless of the money and time I "waste", as you call it.

That doesn't make me inject them with hormones...
If you get so frustrated that you use methods like that, perhaps it's time you find another hobby.

cartouche · Post by **cartouche** » 22 May 2006, 11:30

No, Kim, you misunderstood me. I am simply looking for the easiest way. If there were no other way, I would continue in changing water, simulating dry/rain seasons and other uselessness. But since it is only a matter of chance and it can last till my pensionist's age, I will rather choose a method that will work much more reliably. You can take it as a "surrender" - and formerly I would also took it so - , but it is only a matter of view.

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 22 May 2006, 12:51

Personally I don't like hormone induced breeding, because of the vastly increased probability of hybrid offspring and that natural breeding behaviors are quickly lost in strains maintained through artificial breeding, but there's no denying it's more profitable.

However, as to why it doesn't work for you... I assume you're aware that you still need to have fish conditioned to spawn for it to work?

Wrt the safety of methods, I'd say hormone injections leads to far more dead fish than season simulation, but the higher number of produced offspring per time unit makes up for the inevitable losses.

kim m · Post by **kim m** » 22 May 2006, 14:54

If you, as a hobbyist, starts to breed for the purpose of making money, then you have lost "it"... If you start to hormonally treat your fish to breed them, then you are way out of terapeutic reach...

You won't convince me that it's OK.

I guess we won't come to an understanding on this subject.

eupterus · Post by **eupterus** » 22 May 2006, 19:04

cartouche, maybe I am wrong but you started this thread to ask about the priciple of hormonal breeding in corydoras and the response is pretty categorical. NO, its a poor idea. Youe apparent need to justify it use brings into question your motives for starting this thread. As far as I am concerned injecting hormaones is tantamount to cruelty but as you appear to have given up on standard fish keeping for the "easiest " option for what can only be monetary gain I have to ask why you asked our opinion. As for your rediculous statements regarding my "if it doesnt breed naturally dont breed it" comment, i am at a loss. I was refering to captivity. They breed perfectly ok in the wild but I guess the concept of setting up a 500 river, 2 million acre rainforest wouldnt fall into your "easy option" If you dont likethe difficult breeding species dont keep them and certainly stop killing them with your inject at will procedures from the " i read it somewhere on the internet school of vetinary medicine"
Kim I agree all the way, I like you have over 20 species of which I have bred 7, my favorites are the ones that take the extra effort. I cant think of anything worse than catching and injecting my guapore or seussi just to see if I can make a couple of extra pennies.

Post by **Coryman** » 26 May 2006, 21:23

cartouche,

Although I respect Ian Fuller as a breeder, who has probably bred the largest scale of Corydoras in the world, his "spawning logs" are like a good joke, because he doesn't tell the whole truth and he rather misleads other breeders.

I have sat on the side of these pathetic excuses for not breeding naturally and the need to use hormones. The fact that you have directly attacked me with the above statement has prompted my response, what I should really do it totally ignore your pathetic arguments but I won't. Let me tell you a few truths, which you seem to have overlooked. Firstly I have never told anyone, either directly or in print, that what I say about breeding Corydoradinae Catfish is gospel and is guaranteed to get your fish to breed. What I do say is that it is what has worked for me and a good place to start. You are obviously devoid of enough basic intelligence to use the available information as a starting point.

And catch up with him in the future

Now that is a real joke

Now that I have stopped laughing tell me, where am I misleading and what part of the whole truth did I not tell?
There is no reason whatsoever for you or anyone else for not breeding any fish naturally other than pure greed, it is certainly not for the love of fish. I have read all your posts here and you have used a lot of words to actually say nothing except to criticise and stir up bad feeling. You said you have

"wasted money because of the fish"

I am very sorry but you have wasted money because of your own inability or impatience to actually learn any of their basic needs.

"I must also include the dead fish that I lost during imitating the "guaranteed tricks"

I don't believe I have ever made any "Guarantees" although there are some species which I would, but in your case I think the only guarantee would be if I came to your fish room and did it for you. Now I will throw you a challenge with all your vast experience of killing fish using other peoples breeding expertise. Prove it, list me three species you have killed and give me the full details of how you attempted breeding them and who's advice and information you used.

You don't need fancy tanks or equipment to breed Corys, I could and have bred them in jars and you don't need excess heat either, many will be happy at the room temperatures you live in, (I don't expect stupid comments saying you live at 10ÂºC or 35ÂºC just to promote argument).

Tell me the exact composition of water, temperature, food etc. near the localities, where these fish are found, and I will take it as a "challenge"

I have done this for 65 species of Cory in my "Breeding Corydoradinae Catfishes" book, but then you would have to part with some money to get it, which I bet is totally against your beliefs as well. With pride put my name (real one) to anything that I have done, whether it be a success or a failure. You! have to hide behind an alias and an obscure location.

I am afraid I don't believe you have actually bred any Corys at all, and with your attitude I sincerely hope you never do. If by some strange accident you have actually bred and I say Prove it, let's see the evidence and a complete breakdown of your methods not a copy of someone else's. I don't suppose you recorded the details of your vast number of failures, which is a pity really

because you will have to repeat them all over again.

Ian

cartouche · Post by **cartouche** » 26 May 2006, 22:38

Damn! The discussion becomes somehow hot!

For your information, Ian: I have never spawned any Corydoras after one 50% water change - which you often claim in your spawning logs, even in species that are hard to breed in captivity. I must reconcile with that your house is supplied by some magic water - probably it flows through some ancient Celtic cultish place.

Further, I must add that spawning Corydoras needs good preparation (i.e. good feeding), but it's really hard to prepare species like sodalis, who behave like cracky psychopats, don't eat during the day, and won't leave their hiding places unless there is 100% darkness. Robineae is only a somewhat less nervous copy of them. I have a group of 18 sodalis and I will readily use them as a "testing group" for my hormonal experiments, because if I spawn them or not, I will be glad to get rid of them anyway, because I am completely disgusted of this fish (although otherwise they are very attractive-I have the "striped" variant).

For me, buying your book would be probably of little value, because almost all species that I want to breed are not listed in your list of successful spawnings: robineae, reticulatus, C-3 (but I have them only for a short time)...

I would like to know, if Eric Bodrock spawned robineae repeatedly. And what's with his F1 generation that should be easier to breed. If he didn't spawn them more times, then it's obvious that it's only a matter of chance.

And as for the spawning methods that I used: My favourite is really the hot/dry season method.

http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/bre ... asons.html

I killed two tukanos with it (they got an infection, very probably due to worsened water quality). In fact, the only way how I stimulated sodalis to higher (obviously pre-spawning) activity, was a combination of water changes with setting up strong filtration (water flow). But without any practical result. As I said, I could probably do more and make something with water chemistry, but I just run out of my rain water stores (as usually).

eupterus · Post by **eupterus** » 26 May 2006, 23:19

Fortunately I dont know how to quote and also I have respect for the ppl that run this fantastic forum so I wont say what I want to. If you are disgusted at a species due to the fact that you are inept and unalbe to breed them get over it. You arent a fish keeper you are a man that has fish and apparently a sad one at that. I have robinae and sodalis and both feed during the day and display nicely as a result of them beingkept properly and cared for. The cared for part is my main problem with you. You talk as if your crude injection method kills the fish then that would be a bonus. Shame the fish are unable to reciprocate the action. Fish are to be kept to study and to further our understanding of them. Respect stops me from me continuing, alas that respect is for the forum and not you, this is the first time that I have read a thread and felt so disgusted. I pity you.

I appologise to Jules and the PC team for the tone of this reply but the man is an idiot and whilst that is not a crime the wantant murdering of fish through ignorance and arrogance, both of which cartouche appears to have in abundance should be.

Post by **Coryman** » 26 May 2006, 23:35

For your information, Ian: I have never spawned any Corydoras after one 50% water change - which you often claim in your spawning logs

I don't claim 50% water changes I do them, but you believe what ever you want and what other untruths or misinformation do I give. Don't pull any punches lets have them all. Unlike you my friend, yes I talk the talk but I also I walk the walk hide nothing and can present the evidence, can you?

even in species that are hard to breed in captivity. I must reconcile with that your house is supplied by some magic water - probably it flows through some ancient Celtic cultish place.

Yea! you could be right, it's called a reservoir and the local water authority pumps it straight to my house for an exorbitant annual fee.

Further, I must add that spawning Corydoras needs good preparation (i.e. good feeding), but it's really hard to prepare species like sodalis, who behave like cracky psychopats, don't eat during the day, and won't leave their hiding places unless there is 100% darkness. Robineae is only a somewhat less nervous copy of them. I have a group of 18 sodalis and I will readily use them as a "testing group" for my hormonal experiments, because if I spawn them or not, I will be glad to get rid of them anyway, because I am completely disgusted of this fish (although otherwise they are very attractive-I have the "striped" variant).

Is it that hard for you to give your fish good food, even this can de provided free of charge so you should not be moaning about that: Oh! I forgot that will need some time and effort on your part and I mistakenly thought for a minute that you might have been capable of doing that.

For me, buying your book would be probably of little value, because almost all species that I want to breed are not listed in your list of successful spawnings: robineae, reticulatus, C-3 (but I have them only for a short time)...

Why! did you kill them that quick? Now I am curious, where did you see my spawning logs? Corycats.com? Well as you will probably have realised by now that you cannot get access there any more, not without paying that is. Shame really, but there you go, it's now a site where genuine fish keepers/breeders are welcome.

I would like to know, if Eric Bodrock spawned robineae repeatedly. And what's with his F1 generation that should be easier to breed. If he didn't spawn them more times, then it's obvious that it's only a matter of chance.

It is a fact that many first spawnings are as you say a matter of chance and that is something that I have made no pretence about. I am sure if you take the time and write to Eric, a little effort that I am afraid you will have to do yourself, he will enlighten you to the facts of Cory life. However you would have to use your real name and that would blow your anonymity. Actually Eric would probably treat your hormone ideas with the contempt they deserve.

You weren't the result of hormone inducement by any chance were you? I am sure there must be a connection somewhere.

Ian

cartouche · Post by **cartouche** » 26 May 2006, 23:36

Hi, Eupterus, I could send you my sodalis, if you wanted them. They would show you their temperament! I have them in an overshadowed tank, but I don't dare to feed them during the day. When they feel the food, they rush out of their hiding place, briefly touch it, then make several nervous circles around it - and disappear back to the hiding place. I tried to feed them in 95% darkness - and they do the same. I must feed them in the night, switch all lights off and leave my fish room - otherwise I can't feed them at all. Really a very enjoyable species!

To Ian: I think that my effort with sodalis since October 2002 was quite exhaustive. You must also realize that the life span of the fish is limited and I can't continue in unsuccessful attempts for the next 50 years.

I know your page, of course. It is now closed and accessible only through payment, I know. But I won't join it, although I would be in a good company, because - as you quickly learned from my posts within 30 minutes - I am the same sort of blood-sucking breeders, who set up that page only because of their greed for money

eupterus · Post by **eupterus** » 26 May 2006, 23:45

I have a very simple question for you... all I really want to know is WHY do you keep fish. Can you give me the honest answer.
As for your sodalis, I have half a mind to take them, at least they would be safe. I have a 400l tank with room that I am sure that would settle fine in.

cartouche · Post by **cartouche** » 27 May 2006, 00:10

Hi, Eupterus: You must realize that it is very diferent to have corys in a community tank with many other species, plants, hiding places etc., and to have them in a breeding tank with a bare ground, several roots and a bunch of the java moss. P.S.: I can assure you that your tone of replying is still very polite. Don't be afraid and call me the worst names you know!

I don't know, why you ask me, why I keep fish. I have just said it many times already. It is my hobby that I not a long time ago changed into my profession. I breed fish for money, but I don't breed fish that I don't like. I simply wouldn't enjoy it. There exist species like Corydoras barbatus or Brochis that are bought for solid money, but I don't like them and thus I don't breed them. What to do with a carp-like catfish like Brochis that is very attractive as a juvenile and then all its beauty disappears - often to an immense shock of those, who bought them?

To Ian: I believe that you do 50% water changes. But for a breeder, it's more important what you did with the fish before the water change. For example, in your spawning log of Corydoras sodalis, you list no circumstances that led to the successful spawning of this fish. So did they simply spawn spontaneously?

eupterus · Post by **eupterus** » 27 May 2006, 00:15

money has clouded you judgement and your ethics. maybe you should have remained as a hobbyist. I am fully aware community and breeding tank is different. I have a good number of both and the fish interchange between them. Water quality, care and good husbandry has meant that thus far the fish have been fine in all situations

Post by **Coryman** » 27 May 2006, 00:32

To Ian: I think that my effort with sodalis since October 2002 was quite exhaustive. You must also realize that the life span of the fish is limited and I can't continue in unsuccessful attempts for the next 50 years.

Absolute garbage, how long to you think Corys live 4-5 years! No 15 - 20 may be. This I can prove with (May be not to you because your brain is incapable of accepting any form of truthful statement) several species that I am and have been breeding for 12 years. Actually C. sodalis are quite easy and are not frightened of the light only the source of bad treatment, I bet they dread your entry into the fish room, probably sensing your total incompetence.

I know your page, of course. It is now closed and accessible only through payment, I know. But I won't join it, although I would be in a good company, because - as you quickly learned from my posts within 30 minutes - I am the same sort of blood-sucking breeders, who set up that page only because of their greed for money

No my friend you don't see the picture at all. Those out there that know me know that I don't breed Corys for quantity and profit, but for the knowledge and to cover some of the the expenses incurred, which is rarely achieved. You are the self confessed blood sucker trying to breed and raise large numbers of fish through hormonal methods just for profit. Your best bet would be to go and work for one of the breeding establishment in your country that uses hormone treatments to induce spawning, But then you really will be in trouble because once you have all those fry you actually have to look after them. You know what I mean, like water changes, feeding and that is real fish keeping. The site does have a members area with an annual subscription of less than the cost of a kg of tubifex. Actually I would not want your presence there because you have nothing to offer, not even to a raw novice, in fact it would be frightening to think what damage you would cause to someone trying to about fishkeeping.

To Ian: I believe that you do 50% water changes. But for a breeder, it's more important what you did with the fish before the water change. For example, in your spawning log of Corydoras sodalis, you list no circumstances that led to the successful spawning of this fish. So did they simply spawn spontaneously?

Hey you want spoon feeding, If you don't know how to condition fish for breeding, I am damn sure I am not going to tell you. I should start a consultancy for the likes of you abut thankfully at Â£500.00 per hour there are not enough people around to make a decent living.

Ian

cartouche · Post by **cartouche** » 27 May 2006, 00:35

Eupterus, I see that you and all others here are completely off the trail! At this moment, my earnings are only something above the minimal salary in my country! Since I must now invest a lot, I am often without money, and as I said elsewhere, the "fish business" in catfishes is everything but a way to being a millionaire! The ordinary species in my country (that you certainly hate, because we have liquidated almost the whole bussines with tropical fishes in Western Europe) are now occupied by mega-fish houses controlled by people who often have nothing in common with breeding tropical fishes - they simply join some experienced breeder and conclude an arrangement "you will breed, we will feed". As a result, they lower usual prices onto a level that an ordinary breeder can't compete with, and as a result, many smaller breeders inevitably crash, the quality of the fishes from these mega-fish houses falls, and the whole line of business commits a slow suicide. Some "breeders" now offer fish for prices that are lower than 20 years ago! (By the way, would you want a cardinal neon for 0,18 EURO? No problem. Some fish are offered for as much as 0,09 EURO.) The only way for people with small fish houses is to breed delicate and rare species needing big care, like some catfish, for example. These are not fish for mega-breeders, at least at this moment. And I must think of the future.

To Ian: You are also completely off the trial. I know that Corydoras live for 15-20 years. I myself have a group of Corydoras sterbai since autumn 1995 and I have heard that one man has had imported Corydoras schwartzi for 15 years. But I also have a group of Corydoras similis that I bought at Terry Jones at Bethnal Green Road in 1997 and they don't spawn anymore, very probably because they are too old already. The sodalis were big adult fish, when I bought them, and I can't know, how old they are. Their reproductive age may pass and any effort may be useless. Three years ago I spawned imported Corydoras melini - again adult fish - but their reproductive capacity was almost disastrous - they spawned 3-times a year and gave 30 eggs maximally. Again, very probably too old pieces already.

And as for my sodailis, I wonder why other species that I breed are almost flegmatic, but these fish are so cracky? I am sorry, you would have to see them. But if I will sell them in the future, I will remember you - you can buy them! As I said, a very enjoyable fish!

They certainly are not afraid of me, because my tanks are covered by polystyrene - it is good not only from economical reasons (I have internal heating), but also because I can't disturb the fish, when I am in the fish house.

Post by **Coryman** » 27 May 2006, 00:45

You really have not learned anything from your fish have you, you seem to think that all Corys should produce large number of eggs and on a regular basis. Sorry but this just does not happen. Oh and for your information barbatus is not a Corydoras but Scleromystax, if you are going to quote species get it right.

I see no point in continuing this topic, I very much doubt you will gain any support for hormone induced breeding from members here. So as not to be accused of putting a gag on you, I will allow you the last word and then the topic will be locked.

Ian

cartouche · Post by **cartouche** » 27 May 2006, 01:02

Ian, I have had the melini for 3 years. Their productivity was always worse and worse. It is the same sort of species like duplicareus, but my young duplicareus gave me hundreds of eggs a month.

Oh, of course, you got me - I am an idiot, as Eupterus said, and I don't know that barbatus is Scleromystax. But what will it be next year? After Claudio Oliveira et al. from the Universidade Estadual Paulista in Sao Paulo finish their genetic study of 100 Corydoras+Scleromystax+Aspidoras species? I am quite curious!

But before you close this forum: I would ask you for the description of your procedure before spawning Corydoras sodalis? You fed them, fed them, fed them, and one day "the spawning followed the typical Corydoras 'T' mating clinck pattern. Although a total of eighty-five eggs were laid. All of these eggs were deposited onto the front glass of the tank and were confined to one area of about 40 mm diameter approximately 50 mm from the surface. Once the spawning activity had been completed the adult fish were removed and placed into another tank. The eggs were then protedted from fungal attack by the addition of methylene blue to the tank water at a rate of one drop per gallon."????