Hi everyone,
Is it normal for Panda Cory's to lay only 25 eggs? these are young fish and its their first spawn. It seems like they lay about 5 eggs a day. Maybe they are eating them? The largest batch I have found is 22.
Thanks
Eric
Panda Cory spawn
Re: Panda Cory spawn
Yes, this a banded-cory, they behave so. Small bunches of eggs over several days. 25 eggs is a solid result from young fish. I had about 2-years old adults and they regularly laid 20-25 eggs. I then sold them, so I don't know, how many eggs a large 5 cm panda can produce. But it's hard to find out anyway, if you have more than one pair in the tank, because they often spawn massly.
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kim m
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C. panda are very good at finding their own eggs and eating them. When my breeding group are spawning, I remove eggs 4-6 times during the day. I also check on them first thing when I get out of bed. This way I can recover as much as 40 eggs a day when all 3 females are at it.
Best regards,
Kim M
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Kim M
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Then you feed them very little! I also had big problems with my sterbai, they ate eggs and I wondered, because I thought I was feeding them very well - which was not true. Now I have a group of 23 sterbai in one tank and I feed them REALLY WELL - and they don't touch the eggs at all. Hence I can collect up to 360 eggs a day from them. And they are not hidden in a java moss, but sticked onto a glass everywhere in the tank.
A little advice, how to increase the number of eggs.
Feed with this food, in this order:
earthworms
tubifex
beef heart
Personally I would avoid tubifex, because it's a source of many infections. I would avoid even frozen tubufex. The best choice would be about 70% earthworms + 30% beef heart. If you have some sea plankton, it could allegedly help, too, but I have never tried it. In any case, beef heart should be given in a mix, because some fish don't like it too much.
The point is that the food listed above contains a very advantageous ratio of key fatty acids, from which sexual hormones in catfish are formed. In comparison with "ordinary" food the difference may be abyssal, in the order of hundreds of eggs per spawn (but you can't expect such a big difference in a species like pandas).
And to Kim's remarks: I have never observed that my pandas would eat eggs. In fact, they are quite troublefree in this sense, like e.g. duplicareus. Sterbai are much more eager for caviar. Remember that it also depends on with what a sort of food you feed, not how much you feed.
Feed with this food, in this order:
earthworms
tubifex
beef heart
Personally I would avoid tubifex, because it's a source of many infections. I would avoid even frozen tubufex. The best choice would be about 70% earthworms + 30% beef heart. If you have some sea plankton, it could allegedly help, too, but I have never tried it. In any case, beef heart should be given in a mix, because some fish don't like it too much.
The point is that the food listed above contains a very advantageous ratio of key fatty acids, from which sexual hormones in catfish are formed. In comparison with "ordinary" food the difference may be abyssal, in the order of hundreds of eggs per spawn (but you can't expect such a big difference in a species like pandas).
And to Kim's remarks: I have never observed that my pandas would eat eggs. In fact, they are quite troublefree in this sense, like e.g. duplicareus. Sterbai are much more eager for caviar. Remember that it also depends on with what a sort of food you feed, not how much you feed.
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kim m
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I have no trouble with my sterbais or duplicareus eating eggs, so I can't imagine it being the amount of food. The 3 tanks gets the same amount of food even though there are more sterbais and duplis than pandas.
Best regards,
Kim M
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Guardians of Catfish
Skive Akvarieforening
Kim M
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Guardians of Catfish
Skive Akvarieforening
I have a million questions about panda cory's. How do you raise the young? I have been hatching them in a jar and then dumping them in 10 gal tank. I have been feeding them newly hatched brine shrimp. Near as I can tell only 50 to 75% of them survive after hatching. I would like to have more of them survive. These are the first cory's I have spawned after albino cats.
Do you know the lifespan of a panda cory?
Thanks
Eric
Do you know the lifespan of a panda cory?
Thanks
Eric
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Coryman
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Eric, I bred Panda about 3 years ago, then I sold them. It's a species that doesn't need any particular water chemistry for the development of eggs, unless the water chemistry is extreme, of course. I think that hardness up to 16 dGH should make no problems and the same applies for pH 6-8. I don't know, why your little panda don't survive, you give too little information. Did you want to say that they die before consuming their yolk sac, i.e. before the 4th day after hatching?
Artemia is the best food for Corydoras fry, no doubt, although there exist a certain sort of hysteria around it because of the salt content it, with which I have never had any problem, however. The biggest problem is rather overfeeding. It often occurs, when you have, say, only 20 pieces of fry in a little tank, and especially when you combine live artemia with some other food. Then it's often a lethal combination. They simply overeat theirselves to death (sterbais are particularly prone to it, even as a relatively big fish). By the way, I think that the second best food after live artemia are decapsulated artemia.
But now back to rearing fry: Yes, hatching in a small jar is ideal, but I suppose you let them there until they consume their yolk sacs (cca 4 days)? You shouldn't start feeding before the 4th day. Personally I rather prefer rearing fry in small 6-11 liter (1,6-2,9 gallon) tanks, until they are at least 14 days old. If they are moved into too big a tank shortly after hatching, they have problems with finding food and many of them may die from starvation.
Panda fry - as well as other Corydoras fry - need very clean water, because they are extremely sensitive to bacteria. If you feed with live food, then it's not such a big problem, but if you feed with high protein "dead" (especially dried) food (decapsulated artemia are also this case), then you must be very careful, wash the filter mop preferably every day, remove all food remains from the tank in time, and it's also recommended to clean the tank bottom. Otherwise the bacteria will rapidly multiply from the uneaten food and may cause big loses. From my experience - and also from the experience of other breeders - particularly high loses may occur, when the fish are about 2,5 cm long, because as the fish grow, the mass of offered food (and the mass of bacteria) also rises, but the fish still doesn't have necessary immunity to defend itself. The bacteria (more concretely, it's a genus Flavobacter spp., known as a destroyer of trout hatcheries) settle on the fish' gills, as they breathe, and cause lethal inflammations. Still, panda are not as sensitive to it as Corydoras similis or duplicareus, for example. Generally, I would prefer either live or natural (frozen) food, not dried food, especially not granules.
I think that the loses due to bacterial attack are often mistakenly ascribed to high nitrite levels, although in fact, nitrites are not such a big problem. The fry can usually sustain a concentration up to 0,25 mg NO2/L (although it is naturally better to hold it around 0,10 and less).
Normally I feed my little Corydoras with live artemia for the first 14 days, then I remove them into bigger, but still relatively small (glass, but preferably plastic) tanks that are placed on stands in a big tank (I call them "adaptarium"
. Two opposite sides of these little tanks are equipped with a net so that water from the filter can flow through it. From my experience, it is much better than sudden placing the little fry into a big tank. The bottom of the little tank is small, so the fry can find food easily, but at the same time, the volume of water corresponds to the volume of the big tank, in which the little tank is placed. It saves a lot of time and work, because you don't need to frequently change water in the little tank with fry anymore. When the little fish are over 1 cm long, you will simply move them down. This way you can rear many generations of unequally large fish in the same tank, free from fear that the little ones would die from starvation among their older brothers. If they are not enough large, you simply let them above in the adaptarium until they are enough large.
In the "adaptariums" I feed mostly with decapsulated artemia, later with carefully sliced bloodworms or little plankton (cyclops, daphnia). After the fish are moved down, I feed with bloodworms, plankton and beef heart.
I do hope that after my explanation the number of your questions lowered to 900 000. You don't have to imitate my procedure, if you don't like it, of course. But if I do it this way, it saves tens of little fry that would normally die due to various problems with water pollution, overfeeding or starvation.
And as for the maximal life span of panda: All Corydoras are very long-lived species, some may live as long as 20 years. But a small species like panda that matures relatively quickly may live only 10-15 years.
Artemia is the best food for Corydoras fry, no doubt, although there exist a certain sort of hysteria around it because of the salt content it, with which I have never had any problem, however. The biggest problem is rather overfeeding. It often occurs, when you have, say, only 20 pieces of fry in a little tank, and especially when you combine live artemia with some other food. Then it's often a lethal combination. They simply overeat theirselves to death (sterbais are particularly prone to it, even as a relatively big fish). By the way, I think that the second best food after live artemia are decapsulated artemia.
But now back to rearing fry: Yes, hatching in a small jar is ideal, but I suppose you let them there until they consume their yolk sacs (cca 4 days)? You shouldn't start feeding before the 4th day. Personally I rather prefer rearing fry in small 6-11 liter (1,6-2,9 gallon) tanks, until they are at least 14 days old. If they are moved into too big a tank shortly after hatching, they have problems with finding food and many of them may die from starvation.
Panda fry - as well as other Corydoras fry - need very clean water, because they are extremely sensitive to bacteria. If you feed with live food, then it's not such a big problem, but if you feed with high protein "dead" (especially dried) food (decapsulated artemia are also this case), then you must be very careful, wash the filter mop preferably every day, remove all food remains from the tank in time, and it's also recommended to clean the tank bottom. Otherwise the bacteria will rapidly multiply from the uneaten food and may cause big loses. From my experience - and also from the experience of other breeders - particularly high loses may occur, when the fish are about 2,5 cm long, because as the fish grow, the mass of offered food (and the mass of bacteria) also rises, but the fish still doesn't have necessary immunity to defend itself. The bacteria (more concretely, it's a genus Flavobacter spp., known as a destroyer of trout hatcheries) settle on the fish' gills, as they breathe, and cause lethal inflammations. Still, panda are not as sensitive to it as Corydoras similis or duplicareus, for example. Generally, I would prefer either live or natural (frozen) food, not dried food, especially not granules.
I think that the loses due to bacterial attack are often mistakenly ascribed to high nitrite levels, although in fact, nitrites are not such a big problem. The fry can usually sustain a concentration up to 0,25 mg NO2/L (although it is naturally better to hold it around 0,10 and less).
Normally I feed my little Corydoras with live artemia for the first 14 days, then I remove them into bigger, but still relatively small (glass, but preferably plastic) tanks that are placed on stands in a big tank (I call them "adaptarium"
. Two opposite sides of these little tanks are equipped with a net so that water from the filter can flow through it. From my experience, it is much better than sudden placing the little fry into a big tank. The bottom of the little tank is small, so the fry can find food easily, but at the same time, the volume of water corresponds to the volume of the big tank, in which the little tank is placed. It saves a lot of time and work, because you don't need to frequently change water in the little tank with fry anymore. When the little fish are over 1 cm long, you will simply move them down. This way you can rear many generations of unequally large fish in the same tank, free from fear that the little ones would die from starvation among their older brothers. If they are not enough large, you simply let them above in the adaptarium until they are enough large. In the "adaptariums" I feed mostly with decapsulated artemia, later with carefully sliced bloodworms or little plankton (cyclops, daphnia). After the fish are moved down, I feed with bloodworms, plankton and beef heart.
I do hope that after my explanation the number of your questions lowered to 900 000. You don't have to imitate my procedure, if you don't like it, of course. But if I do it this way, it saves tens of little fry that would normally die due to various problems with water pollution, overfeeding or starvation.
And as for the maximal life span of panda: All Corydoras are very long-lived species, some may live as long as 20 years. But a small species like panda that matures relatively quickly may live only 10-15 years.
Hi Folks,
the past 3 days I have found 12 eggs a day in the mops. I have been floating the eggs in a 1 quart jar with an airstone in a 10 gal tank until they hatch. Then I relese them into the tank. I replace 75% of the water in the jar daily. It looks to me that some of them die in the next 2 days after hatch. The ones that survive I have been feeding them baby brine shrimp.
I am at a point now where I have 1 week old fry and newly layed eggs. Do you try to raise all of the generations in the same fry tank or do you keep them seperate?
Thanks
Eric
the past 3 days I have found 12 eggs a day in the mops. I have been floating the eggs in a 1 quart jar with an airstone in a 10 gal tank until they hatch. Then I relese them into the tank. I replace 75% of the water in the jar daily. It looks to me that some of them die in the next 2 days after hatch. The ones that survive I have been feeding them baby brine shrimp.
I am at a point now where I have 1 week old fry and newly layed eggs. Do you try to raise all of the generations in the same fry tank or do you keep them seperate?
Thanks
Eric
You daily replace 75% water in the jar BEFORE they hatch? I think that's your preference, but personally I wouldn't do it. In fact, I would do nothing with the eggs and fry, until they hatch and consume their yolk sac. I have big problems with the fry of Corydoras duplicareus, if I move them into another water before consuming the yolk sac. The fry have osmotic problems and massly die, even if the difference in chemistry is seemingly negligible. I don't remember how it was with the fry of panda, but as I said: I would recommend to let them in a small jar until they consume their yolk sac, i.e. 4 days after hatching. Then you can remove them into a bigger tank, but 10 gallon (38 liter?) still seems unecessary large to me. Naturally, the water in this bigger tank should have the same chemistry, although at this stage of development many Corydoras fry are not as sensitive as before consuming the yolk sac.
But you still said nothing about the chemical parameters of your water. What water do you use for hatching? From the tank with adults? Isn't it too polluted? Eggs are not sensitive to the change of water chemistry. You don't have to use the same water from the tank with adults, clean water with similar chemistry is sufficient (in fact, even if it is quite different, it doesn't hurt them).
To your problem with rearing fry: I stated previously that if the size difference among the fry is negligible, then you can let them in the same tank. But if you had some fry, say, 1,5 cm long, I certainly wouldn't dare to add newly hatched fry to them. If you read my previous post, I recommended my praxis with the plastic tank on a stand.
But you still said nothing about the chemical parameters of your water. What water do you use for hatching? From the tank with adults? Isn't it too polluted? Eggs are not sensitive to the change of water chemistry. You don't have to use the same water from the tank with adults, clean water with similar chemistry is sufficient (in fact, even if it is quite different, it doesn't hurt them).
To your problem with rearing fry: I stated previously that if the size difference among the fry is negligible, then you can let them in the same tank. But if you had some fry, say, 1,5 cm long, I certainly wouldn't dare to add newly hatched fry to them. If you read my previous post, I recommended my praxis with the plastic tank on a stand.
I forgot about the little tanks inside the big ones. I have an idea I may try when I get a chance. I will post pictures if it works.
I use water from the main tank. There should not be much polution but I will try fresh aged water. My water varies between 300 to 400 ppm tds. PH 7.8
I will try waiting 4 days before placeing in the larger tank.
Thanks
Eric
I use water from the main tank. There should not be much polution but I will try fresh aged water. My water varies between 300 to 400 ppm tds. PH 7.8
I will try waiting 4 days before placeing in the larger tank.
Thanks
Eric
Here you can see, how my tanks with fry are arranged:
Down on the bottom you can see over 200 little Duplicareus swimming. And here are 32 smaller ones from recent spawnings:
I have had only 1 lose in this tank during the last month, and it was due to an unhappy mechanical accident. I change about 80% water every 4-5 days, nitrites are below 0,10 mg NO2/L.
I must confess that I am not acquianted with the units of hardness you list. I know that it's now prevalent to use milivals/L, but I still prefer counting in German grades (dGH). The pH value is quite high, but according to data from the natural locality of Corydoras panda, a pH 7,7 and conductivity 92 uS (=approximately 3 dGH) is optimal, so the problem shouldn't be in pH.
Down on the bottom you can see over 200 little Duplicareus swimming. And here are 32 smaller ones from recent spawnings:
I have had only 1 lose in this tank during the last month, and it was due to an unhappy mechanical accident. I change about 80% water every 4-5 days, nitrites are below 0,10 mg NO2/L.
I must confess that I am not acquianted with the units of hardness you list. I know that it's now prevalent to use milivals/L, but I still prefer counting in German grades (dGH). The pH value is quite high, but according to data from the natural locality of Corydoras panda, a pH 7,7 and conductivity 92 uS (=approximately 3 dGH) is optimal, so the problem shouldn't be in pH.
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Coryman
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Eric,
This is one of the containers that I use to hatch eggs in. Basically it is the same idea as cartouche's. I know these plastic containers are available in the USA because I can only get them from there they come in two sizes, 6" & 8". I modify them by drilling a hole at the water line for the sponge filter return to fit through and cut out a small panel or a series of holes at the bottom of the opposite side, Which then has a piece of fine mesh glued over the area. The containers have a lip on on side so they can be hung onto the front or side of the main tank.
Ian
This is one of the containers that I use to hatch eggs in. Basically it is the same idea as cartouche's. I know these plastic containers are available in the USA because I can only get them from there they come in two sizes, 6" & 8". I modify them by drilling a hole at the water line for the sponge filter return to fit through and cut out a small panel or a series of holes at the bottom of the opposite side, Which then has a piece of fine mesh glued over the area. The containers have a lip on on side so they can be hung onto the front or side of the main tank.
Ian
Hi Cartouche,
My computer will not display the pictues for some reason. I dont remember the conversion form ppm to dGH but I think it is around 15 GH and KH.
Hi Ian,
That is close to what I had in mind but I was going to use a gal pickel jar. Is that plastic container one of those breeders? Is it solid on the bottom? How many eggs can you hatch out in one? Do you relese the fry immediatly after hatch? Do you feed the fry in the container? Sorry about all the questions.
Thanks
Eric
My computer will not display the pictues for some reason. I dont remember the conversion form ppm to dGH but I think it is around 15 GH and KH.
Hi Ian,
That is close to what I had in mind but I was going to use a gal pickel jar. Is that plastic container one of those breeders? Is it solid on the bottom? How many eggs can you hatch out in one? Do you relese the fry immediatly after hatch? Do you feed the fry in the container? Sorry about all the questions.
Thanks
Eric
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MatsP
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Is there anybody else, who doesn't see my pictures? I am no computer specialist, but I already had similar problems elsewhere, if I posted some link to http://www.mujweb.cz. Perhaps you should use Mozilla Firefox instead of Microsoft Explorer, I don't know. Eric, if you don't see them, then you can write to centrum99(a)centrum.cz, I will send them to you.
If your water has 17-22 dGh, then the source of your problem is clear! You should mix it with soft water to get the water hardness to about 10 dGH. But remember that non-filtrated rain water may not be ideal. From time to time I have problems with using non-filtrated rain water in my fry, although it is collected from a small clean roof.
If your water has 17-22 dGh, then the source of your problem is clear! You should mix it with soft water to get the water hardness to about 10 dGH. But remember that non-filtrated rain water may not be ideal. From time to time I have problems with using non-filtrated rain water in my fry, although it is collected from a small clean roof.
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martijn
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@ Cartouche: I see your pictures. If you do not see them, it might be an option to change some firewall options. e.q. I have added Planet Catfish to Zone alarm (my firiwall) as a safe site and i unmarked some options so it is allowed for zone alarm to donwload pictures and stuff from P.C.
Bye Martijn
Bye Martijn
C. Habrosus 
No, I see them, of course. But others had problems, if I linked them to my pages or pictures on mujweb.cz.
I would like to add to Eric's problems that too high hardness would probably prevent many eggs from hatching and hatched fry would have deformations. In any case, I think that he should lower the hardness of his water and then he will see, if it helps.
I would like to add to Eric's problems that too high hardness would probably prevent many eggs from hatching and hatched fry would have deformations. In any case, I think that he should lower the hardness of his water and then he will see, if it helps.
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Coryman
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Eric,
The containers are made by Lee's aquarium & Pet Products and are called Speciemen containers and come in two sizes. The largest is 7 1/14" long, 6" deep 3 1/4"wide. It does have a solid base, they will comfortably hold 100 or more eggs.
To start with when using this method for hatching once I place the eggs into the container I tread the water with a organic anti fungal solution that I have recently develope. I leave the air to the attached sponge filter turned off for three or four hours to alow the solution to coat the eggs and the start it up creating a reasonable water flow.
I do feed the fry in the container for up to a month, depending on the number, with larger numbers the time us usually less and I may release the fry into a larger shallow growing on tank after two weeks first transfering water from the original tank.
With regard to your water, it may not be an exact comparison, but my mains water used to read between 350 & 420 ppm conductivity and when the gh was measuerd using the chemical mathod the readings were between 9 & 12. So I think you have possibly over estimated your readings. However your pH is a little high and I would be inclined to add some peat moss to your filters and even have a houshold water filter fitted to your mains input, this would certainly remove some of the undesirable substanses before they reach your tanks.
Ian
The containers are made by Lee's aquarium & Pet Products and are called Speciemen containers and come in two sizes. The largest is 7 1/14" long, 6" deep 3 1/4"wide. It does have a solid base, they will comfortably hold 100 or more eggs.
To start with when using this method for hatching once I place the eggs into the container I tread the water with a organic anti fungal solution that I have recently develope. I leave the air to the attached sponge filter turned off for three or four hours to alow the solution to coat the eggs and the start it up creating a reasonable water flow.
I do feed the fry in the container for up to a month, depending on the number, with larger numbers the time us usually less and I may release the fry into a larger shallow growing on tank after two weeks first transfering water from the original tank.
With regard to your water, it may not be an exact comparison, but my mains water used to read between 350 & 420 ppm conductivity and when the gh was measuerd using the chemical mathod the readings were between 9 & 12. So I think you have possibly over estimated your readings. However your pH is a little high and I would be inclined to add some peat moss to your filters and even have a houshold water filter fitted to your mains input, this would certainly remove some of the undesirable substanses before they reach your tanks.
Ian