Catfish for breeding Tropheus Tank

24tropheus · Post by **24tropheus** » 16 Jul 2006, 01:03

What would you recomend keeping with Tropheus? Or are all likely to stress the Tropheus or get the newly released baby ones?
Any one got any experience of keeping Tropheus with petricola?
Brisle noses ok do you think? or just some of them?

toddnbecka · Post by **toddnbecka** » 16 Jul 2006, 10:30

Petricola's or BN's shouldn't be a problem with tropheus. Neither one will eat fry.

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 18 Jul 2006, 13:23

If your aim is to breed with the Tropheus, don't add anything else.

make sure there's lots and lots of tiny hidey holes; alpha males can and do hunt down fry. even if they don't eat them they can chew them to death. once the tiny Tropheus are 1/2" or so they're usually safe.

petricola's DO eat fry, also Tropheus fry.

maybe you can add a BN, but Tropheus are grazers and do much better in a tank without any pleco. the algae growth gives them activities other than chasing and fighting and growing fry really appreciates the algae-carpet.

Ofcourse Tropheus don't clean the frontwindow, so you have to do that job. but we don't want a lazy fishkeeper on our hands, do we?

buffalo · Post by **buffalo** » 18 Jul 2006, 18:25

I can't think of a cichlid that don't eat fry or a syno. catfish that don't eat fry given the opportunity.

24tropheus · Post by **24tropheus** » 19 Jul 2006, 20:40

Thanks guys mixxed messages before and in articles still but I think I know who to trust everyones experiences opinions more than wellcome of course. Maybe try them in a Malawi set up where no fry are urgent or can strip?

Outragiuos snob that I am.

Thanks.

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 19 Jul 2006, 22:11

Theyt'd be fine in either a Malawi- or a Tropheus-setup.

BUT your first question is about a BREEDING tank.

so what's it gonna be? a showtank or a breeding tank?
Synodontis petricola does fine in any Rift-showtank; be it Malawians, Tropheus, frontosa, Lamprologines.....

and ofcourse in a S petricola-breeding tank.

BUT there's no such thing as a 'breeding showtank'.

that's like asking for a five legged sheep with orange wool

either you breed Tropheus (and hence don't add any non Tropheus)
or you set up a nice showtank with Tropheus, petricola, perhaps Eretmodus, a few Juli's etc.

CEfire · Post by **CEfire** » 20 Jul 2006, 03:47

Unreasonably long URL here

Hehe, couldn't resist

snowball · Post by **snowball** » 20 Jul 2006, 03:54

heh excellent!

toddnbecka · Post by **toddnbecka** » 20 Jul 2006, 04:54

Ask and you shall receive

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 20 Jul 2006, 10:52

CEfire wrote:and here

Hehe, couldn't resist

Jetlagged silly at 5.50 in the morning, I can't resist: But it's only got three evident legs, but presumably four. Sidguppy was "asking" for a five-legged one...

--
Mats

CEfire · Post by **CEfire** » 20 Jul 2006, 19:15

A FIVE LEGGED ONE!!!!!!!!

Well that would be like trying to find a green polka dotted pig that can fly....

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 21 Jul 2006, 02:52

CEfire wrote:A FIVE LEGGED ONE!!!!!!!!

Well that would be like trying to find a green polka dotted pig that can fly....

Yeah, and I think that was roughly Sidguppy's point in the first place...

--
Mats

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 21 Jul 2006, 09:32

exactly.

what the English speaking people describe as "when pigs might fly" is comparable to "wanting a five-legged sheep" in Dutch, but not the same.

if something is highly unlikely to happen we say "maybe if Easter and Pinkster fall on 1 day"; you can compare that with "and pigs might fly", "when Hell freezes over" etc.

but "wanting the five legged sheep" is a translation of "wanting the impossible"
almost the same, but not.

it's like someone wants a Red Tail Catfish, but also wants it to stay small, peaceful and able to co-exist with guppies and Cory's.
THAT's when the Dutch say "you want a five legged sheep".

and that's my point to pull all this fun-stuff back to the original post:
you can have a nice showtank with several kinds of Rift-fish and the occasional surcviving fry OR you can set up a true breeding tank for a particular species; but you CANNOT have both.
Hence: "there's no such thing as a show and breed tank, it's a five legged sheep"
although with proper decoration breeding tanks can be very nice and pretty enough to 'show' in a living room.

24tropheus · Post by **24tropheus** » 23 Jul 2006, 02:29

I am deeply deeply out of my depth. Thanks all.
Think I am sutably chastised learnt a lot. Thanks Guys. Tropheus my game (ish). No expert but I realy love this site. Try petricola if I can get what I would most like in a different tank perhaps try and breed pure bloods (God I sound awful). (dream on Tropheus breeding seem to obses me)

Love and kisses to you all

And thanks

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 23 Jul 2006, 10:42

Breeding Tropheus isn't that hard, actually; done it for years.

the main challenge is to keep a lid on the fishbuying habit (and yes, that's hard for me as well).
apart from that it's merely getting the discipline to follow the rules in a very strict manner:

-get a roomy tank. 100G or so. (400 liters), bigger is better!
make sure the filtration is top, the waterexchange (you may add powerheads) should be 3-4 times the entire volume in 1 hour.
exchange at least 1/3 of the water every week. stick to this routine like glue!

-do NOT make the 'beginners-mistake' of cramming it full of rocks. set up a few big rocks with flat tops about 20-35 cm (8-14") under the surface (alpha male spawning sites), pile some small rocks with many small caves in the corners (baby hideouts; holding mom hideouts).
again: not too many rocks!
Tropheus breed better with far less agression in bare tanks than in a 'natural rockwall setup'; in the latter agression can go wayyyyyy out of line.
just 1 or 2 boulders and fields of sturdy plants in the back and sides work too, but be prepared that Tropheus molests plants

-buy a batch of anti-BLOAT meds just in case. have it in the house, ready for use. fish get sick on saturday nights on purpose, believe me.....

-do NOT buy a pleco or bristlenose!!
a dedicated Tropheusbreeder cleans his or her own frontwindow and you'll need the algae on every other surface, really. a 'clean' tank has severe drawbacks (see: food)

-get yourself a nice batch of Tropheus; 1 species, 1 variety of that species. as many as you can afford! really. buying 25 or so in 1 go isn't weird at all. youngsters of the 'pondbred' or F1 (fry from wildcaughts) are the best. be prepared to spend! good quality Tropheus can be expensive. if you can't afford those, best keep other Tangs until you can.

-non-fry eaters wich you CAN add are Eretmodus (Goby cichlid or 'Tanganyika clown) wich can be kept as a pair or in a group of at least 8. they don't eat fish (not even tiny ones) and need the same care. Tropheus and Eretmodus don't bother each other at all; a perfect match.
another fry-safe match are the dwarf-species of Julidochromis (J transcriptus 'Bemba' or J 'kissi', NOT the J 'transcriptus 'Gombe') and Telmatochromis (T brichardi, T sp 'Zambia').
NO other fish.

-Feed a good quality spirulinaflake!
if you like granule food or pellets: pre-soak these to avoid drama! OSI (the best!), Wardley's, Hikari etc all have excellent food.
1-2x a week you may add a bit of cyclops.
no other foodstuff. PERIOD
Algae: algae in your tank "keep Tropheus busy", it makes sure they have at least a bit of natural food (algae fibers in the gut: little risk of BLOAT) and for baby Tropheus it's very very good food.
If your tropheus 'get bored' like in a pristine tank with a few BN's or a pleco they'll 'invent other amusements'......I'm sure you get the picture

-do NOT strip

ever.
stripping screws up the necessary imprint of the baby Tropheus, and once those are big, they'll never breed again naturally and need to be stripped too. stripping is a big NO.

success!

24tropheus · Post by **24tropheus** » 23 Jul 2006, 21:28

Wow took me 20 years of trying to figure that lot out for myself and all I needed was a computer,
(Only got one last couple of months)
and to figure out where to ask (Tried many cichlid sites)

What do you recon on the claims from promoters of NLS that it is a completly proven food for Tropheus?

Thanks

Post by **Barbie** » 24 Jul 2006, 07:18

While I do feed some of the NLS foods with lower protein levels to my Tropheus, this is only after they've had a good sized feeding of their regular flake, also. I don't ever switch their diet, but I do supplement it slightly with a variety of "additions", such as BioBlend Herbivore formula pellets, the NLS community formula, and zucchini and other vegetables. I've never had a case of bloat in my tanks with this diet. I myself wouldn't feed NLS alone. I think it would be asking for trouble. If you compare Tropheus to horses dietary needs it does make more sense to give them more graze and veggie matter and fiber while keeping the foods they eat every day very similar to keep from causing impactions in their long digestive tracts.

Much like the more herbivorous plecos ;).

Barbie

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 24 Jul 2006, 11:57

I never have tried NLS (what does it stand for? non abbreviated I mean), because I never saw it for sale here in NL.

brands on the other side of the pond differ I guess

barbie's comparison with a horse is a good one; like horses Tropheus graze and graze and graze; loads of veggie-stuff but little protein.
hence also my suggestion to skip on a pleco: to give them the oppertunity to graze in captivity!

A tank overrun with green, brown, filamentous and paintbrush-algae is something of a Walhalla to tropheus

and indeed: to keep the Tropheus' gut full of hard-to-digest/non-digestible fibers 24/7 is THE best way of avoiding BLOAT and keeping them in perfect health.

toddnbecka · Post by **toddnbecka** » 24 Jul 2006, 17:11

New Life Spectrum.

24tropheus · Post by **24tropheus** » 25 Jul 2006, 15:27

http://forums.spectrumfishfood.com/viewtopic.php?p=57

24tropheus · Post by **24tropheus** » 05 Oct 2006, 01:18

Well I have been doing quite a lot of research on this and eventualy come up with some advice on NLS that I think is good. Thanks Pam Chin.

Regarding foods: Their main objective in life, behind breeding, is to eat, they have been recorded scraping the rocks for algae over 1500 times per hour. The algae they are scraping off the rocks in the wild is more of a pale green slime, they have to eat all day to get enough nourishment! While the are foraging they are occationaly eating other things, and some of them are high in protein; fish eggs.

I think a green flake with a fish meal base is fine. Just be aware of the ingredients. My main goal in feeding them is to promote grazing, and just use the flake or pellet as a supplement. I feed a lot of frozen and cooked green peas, sprouts and seaweed paper are excellent. They do well on homemade foods with a base of shrimp <10% and peas, and then you can add whatever you want; spirulina, color enhancers, vitamins, etc.

There are a lot of hobbyists who feed NLS (New Life Spectrum) exclusively and seem to be successful, for me that is just way to rich, and it is like feeding your Tropheus at McDonalds everyday, and sure they will love it, but the fat is deposited around the reproductive orgrans as well as the liver. I think they will live longer on a diet that is similar to what they would find in the wild.

24tropheus · Post by **24tropheus** » 13 Oct 2006, 23:10

Ps I have not given up on the idea of petricola with breeding Tropheus but am letting a friend try it first

PlecoCrazy · Post by **PlecoCrazy** » 14 Oct 2006, 06:10

I feed my Tropheaus Omega One Veggie Flakes and NLS Cichlid formula. Never a case of bloat and they breed just fine.

The only other species of fish in the tank are petricolas which I have a piece of gray pvc with a T on the bottom to help make sure I get some of the spectrum pellets down to the cats at night. They get some during regular feedings but the tropheus obviously have the whole column of water to get the pellets before they make it to the bottom where the cats can get them. The cats also do swim upside down and get some of the floating flakes as well.

This tank has been setup for about 4-5 years now with no problems. I do loose a baby or two within the first month or so after being released but I have found that leaving a night light on above the tank for the first month or two after being released greatly decreased the amount of babies lost. After a few months they are removed anyways to a bare grow out tank.

Its definently possible to keep both in the same tank and have success breeding, you might loose a few babies but you'll wind up with more than you know what to do with anyways so oh well.

Also, my tank is not bare I have about 20-30 pounds of rock and also a breeding pot turned upside down over a saucer of marbles for the petricolas. The saucer is glass and there is no substrate underneath making it easy to look from below and see if there are any eggs that needs removed.

While it might not be advised it is definently possible. Give it a try if your interested.

Last bit of advise; Keep up on the water changes!!! GOOD LUCK!!!

24tropheus · Post by **24tropheus** » 12 Dec 2021, 21:06

Its a very old thread but the advice here I found as good. Yep I got quite a lot of fry survival. Yep I enjoyed the Synos in the tank. But yep they reduced the breeding compared to my Tropheus only tank/tanks. I never directly saw loss of fry to lucipinis (not petricola as they were sold to me as (sadly still a problem I understand)) but recon it probably was going on for a few slow or unlucky fry.
Oh tank was set up and going for many years I recon they were getting quite in bred towards the end (though I saw no reduction in quality) before I moved house and dismantle the tank.

All the best
James

Catfish for breeding Tropheus Tank

Catfish for breeding Tropheus Tank

Re: Catfish for breeding Tropheus Tank