Pseudacanthicus sp L25 "Scarlet" : another breeding tale

[ElTofi]

Hello everyone...

you know I have 3 mature Pseuda L25 from this last summer... In December, I added 7 very big caves for them and for the Panaque... guess what ? My caves have just been "Pseudapproved"... The clutch happened on Wednesday, January, 14th... and from that time, Mr. Dad is fanning like a turbine...

Here's the story :

January, 3rd :

I put 30 liters of river pebbles in the 1600 liters, cause my Retroculus seemed to be in the mood for love... So I gave them what they need to build a nest... The 2 following nights, the Retro digged quiet a lot, and the Baryancistrus ate all the bacterio-vegetal film on the peebles. Have I told you that I've been dumb enough to throw the peebles directly in the tank, without cleaning them at all... Consequence : big water pollution... it badly stinks... I'm wondering what the hell is the reason (at this time I didn't think about the "dirty" peebles neither about the digging activity) ... I'm looking for a big dead fish... I'm looking for the Pseuda, or the Panaque... And I can't find the 3rd Pseuda

Emergency mesures... big 400 liters water change and filters cleaning... During the while, I finaly find the 3rd Pseuda... in fact, he's (she's, in the end) in the tube, crashed by the big alpha male... I don't know if I must think about a spawn or about a fight for the cave...

January, 4th :

the water still stinks, it's awfull... another 400 liters water change... Temperature falls to 24°C in the tank, witch is 5°C lower than usual. It seems that the pollution is about to be solved... Both Pseuda are still in the tube... I begin to hope, but I'm still quiet worried about a possible fight... I still don't know if this 3rd is a male or not... I set my decision : if nothing's new tomorrow, I'll take the tube off the tank to check it out by myself...

January, 5th :

In the evening, 3rd 400 liters water change... it seems the pollution is solved... I check inside the tube to find the alpha male alone inside it... He's fanning !!! I hope, I check, I watch... there are a few eggs... Strange as the genus is supposed to give big clutches... That's a good start... I'm too happy... I leave a SMS (ok, maybe 5... well, in fact it's more around 12) to local fishhobbyist friends to take support, ideas... In fact, I just need to say it... but I don't want to write it on the net yet... too early... I quickly leave a PM to Harvaard to have a piece of advice...

January, 6th :

Coming back from job, I can only see that the male isn't in the tube any more I only can find a few empty eggs envelops... big big deception...

I look for the both fishes... And then, I can see what is definitely a female at the back side of the tank... the only positive point is that I can clearly see the oviduct. It still pulses and the female still seems to be quiet gravid... I guess I distrubed them too much with water changes and "quick checks"... She wears bite marks on the edge of the dorsal fin, and I can see she's been hurt by her male...

I'll do "sanitary checks" every day on her... Nothing to say until the next Sunday... The show goes on in a while...

[ElTofi]

January, 11th :

In the evening, I do my usual "evening check" in the fishroom... I check in the tube, as I do from last week, and surprise... here they are again... Same behaviour, male and female inside, the male covering the female, prisonning her inside... I don't want to disturb them again... So I hope, without a word, without a sign... maybe this time...

January, 12th :

both Pseuda are still inside... the 3rd (which is, in my opinion a female too), tries to come in to see what's the matter... but the male doesn't give her a chance... Even if the tube could be big enough to let 3 fishes inside, there's no chance... The male is very rough and I can't see the female move... stressed ? not a second ! OK, maybe a second or two... I don't know if he's gonna be brutal enough to wound her, or worse, to kill her... Moreover, it beginns to be very difficult to keep that for myself... But you heard about this strange curse... the "if you say it, it will be destroyed" aquarist curse

January, 13th :

Nothing new... except that I'm burning to write something about it...

January, 14th :

In the morning check, I can see the female inside tries to get out... I can't see nothing except the male and the females tentatives...

Back from job, in the evening, quick check with a light... The male is alone again... and this time : YES !!! it's not only a few eggs I can see, but a whole big clutch... this one is as big as a closed fist... quiet impressive... and the male is fanning with his whole body and fins... It seems that he does a great job, protecting the clutch in the far end of the tube...

January, 15th :

the male is always fanning, everything's fine... till yet... I won't take pictures before this week-end... and if I can take micro-movies, I'll do...

[ElTofi]

January, 16th :

I borrowed a small numeric camera, to use the movie function... Tentatives in the open light of the tank are useless... I can only capture the tube area... nothing more... I try with the lights off... not better... poor results...

what you must know is that the fishes are around 35 cm SL so the cave must be at least as long to allow the both fishes to go inside it... So the tubes are around 50 cm long, for 15 cm large and 10 cm high... Imagine that Mr. Dad is very deep inside the tube with his clutch... If I can perfectly see him and his clutch with the help of a flashlight, I'm unable to get proper pictures... neither movies...

And I don't want to take the risk of using a big photo-flash cause it could stress the male enough to eat his clutch... so, you'll have to trust me till the hatch, and certainly a few days more, till I will take out part of the fry to raise them artificially...

It should hatch on next Thursday (22nd) as the temperature of this tank is a bit under what it should be... Actually, it's around 27°C vs the usual 30°C it is in summer...

And just to give you what I can...

the cave where it all happens...


a poor picture of the inside...


and another...


I cross my fingers... and hope to give you good news in a few days...

See you right after the hatch...

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Very nice to hear! Congrats!

Do you have photos of the male and the female from above? Would be great to see the differences between the sexes!

Can't wai't to see the fry!

You sould make atricles out of you pseudacanthicus breeding tales!

Best regards
Cristoffer

[ElTofi]

Do you have photos of the male and the female from above?

Actually, no... I only have the picts I took when the came in, in August... And nobody (here on PC or on L-Welse) could sex them on these pictures base...

Of course, I will take more pictures later... but this day I won't take any risk that could disturb them... Within a few days, I probably will take the fry out of the tube and I'll be able to make pictures of the male... Maybe at this time, I will catch the female too for a brief shooting session...

[Loracidlover]

An amazing story Tofi, you're becoming the pseuda pro!! I can't wait to see the little ones, this has been my fishkeeping fantasy for a long time!

Conrad

[smithrc]

Wow - and not in a 2ft tank either

Keep up with the updates

[CanadaPleco]

That's fantastic! Keep us updated as to what happens.

Rich

[DutchFry]

great news again!

please keep us updated

[Haavard Stoere]

I am lost for words Keep us updated

[Richard B]

Good stuff - can't wait for the pics

[husky_jim]

Great!!!Can't wait for update!

[andywoolloo]

very exciting! can't wait for updates!

[Rohan Richardson]

Well done mate well done. Best of luck with them and the fry. I hope that you document everything even if only for yourself! Rohan R

[ElTofi]

I hope that you document everything even if only for yourself! Rohan R

Don't worry, I do !

I will give you news and observations day to day (as soon as there is something interesting, of course)... and a few pictures, as soon as possible...

[ElTofi]

I'm starting to think that the only way to leave a spawn by the parent's care is to have a specific tank for breeding... Yesterday, the male was already obliged to partially get out of the cave, fighting with a female Crenicichla. This last one understood that there was something delightable inside this cave... Tonight, same fishes, same fight... The male was 4/5 out of the tube to fight and I saw a few eggs getting lost in the stream... Moreover, and that's what made my decision, the clutch divided into 3 parts, loosing eggs crushed during the fight... I couldn't stay calm and let do it...

I don't know if it was a good decision or not, but now it's done... I don't want to take any risk on this first spawning... If I've been able to raise 200 baby Pseudacanthicus sp L320, I hope I can do the same with L25... I pray hard for it...

Here's a picture of the tank yesterday. The spawning took place in the second cave from the left, right between Retroculus n°4 and n°5



This other picture shows the second female (in my opinion) which is here in the cave right next to the "spawning site" (on the left of it, first cave on the left). You can clearly see the colour, which is less bright than by the male. The dorsal fin is lower and the light orange colour is only on the first ray of it. The male has a whole deep red dorsal fin. I'll try to get pictures of him these next days.



Here under, you can see the (very impressive) clutch, divided into 3 parts... I just laid it in a floating nursery and on the picture, I haven't cleaned up the broken eggs...



And finaly, a close up view. It seems to be an enormous amount of eggs, much more than with the Pseuda L320... OK L25 are much bigger than my L320, but still... And even if it's not evident on this picture, the eggs are very orange, almost light red, much more dark orange than the others I could have seen on Hypancistrus or Ancistrus or even on the other Pseuda spawning...



Well, that's done... The good think is that I'll be able to follow day to day the evolution... For the rest, would you please cross your fingers with me ?

[ElTofi]

Already back on PC... a few new pictures from tonight...

Let me introduce you to Mr. Dad :


I feel sorry for him, he's very desapointed to have lost his future fry... he's still fanning at the entrance of the cave...

Now, Mrs Mom...


You maybe can see the wounded caudal fin, bit by the male during the spawning... A close up view of the caudal fin of her :


and finaly, my 3rd L25 fish... I have an idea (a hope)... and you ?

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Lovley fishes! But bad company in the tank perhaps!

Is it possible that females display a darker bodycolor than the male, like L91. Leporacanthicus triactis?

From youre pics... the female looks very similar to fish no. 3, so I would say that it is also a female... but I think you're the expert here on Pseudacanthicus...

Very nice images! Hope to see many nice fry and juveniles!

Regards
Cristoffer

[CanadaPleco]

Great photos, I wish you luck with bringing raising all those eggs! Will be great.

Do you keep any other species of plecos in that tank?

[ElTofi]

the actual population in this tank is made of :

3 Pseudacanthicus sp "Scarlet" L25 (35-40 cm from August 08, no idea of their age)
3 Panaques LDA63 (25 cm - 4 years old)
1 Scobinancistrus aureatus (20 cm - 3 years old)
2 Baryancistrus sp golden nuggets L81 (15 cm - 5 years old)
3 Baryancistrus sp golden nuggets L177 (20 cm - 8 years old)
1 Glyptoperichthys gibbiceps (44 cm - 3 years old)

5 Retroculus xinguensis (20 cm - 15 months old)
3 Crenicichla sp Rio Guariquito (12-18 cm - 9 months old)

17 Hyphessobricon socolofi

8 Chromobotia macracantha (yes, I know, they have nothing to do in there )

that's it... heavy organic charge, I know...

[Jon]

dude. nice.

[GW_NL]

WOW! This is absolutely stunning!

Love love love your fish! L025's are one of the most striking catfish IMHO.

It's very good news that you're able to breed them in captivity. It's a dream for me and it will probably stay that way

Love the Retroculus too btw. Stunning fish!

I sincerely hope that you'll be able to raise the fry. Good luck!

[ElTofi]

In the end, I'm not sure I made the right choice, stealing the clutch from the father First of all, I hadn't anything to put it in, and second I had handeled it to much : 3 times in 48 hours.

First it went into a floating nursery which was sedimenting every single suspended dust, then I put it yesterday into a 54 liters tank I installed in emergency... not very smart, for someone who's supposed to have an idea of how to raise Pseuda fry

So now, it's done... Let's see pictures...



You can see a few "white eggs" resulting from broken envelopps or from too early hatching... But looking closer, I believe there is still a good hope for a few dozen





So let's cross fingers... and wait and see...

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Did any die juring the moving?
How many larve do you estimate?

They look very reddish in color!

Very nice to see!!!

[ElTofi]

Indeed... I lost around 30 eggs in those 48 hours...

and I guess I can see 20 more "lost fry" today... the difference is that I won't attempt to remove them before the whole clutch will have hatched... The point is to avoid to break any other eggs-fry

I have no idea of how many larvae there is in this tank... Do you ?

[Haavard Stoere]

I think you have 100 or more living eggs/larvae. They will be easier to count in a couple of weeks. I hope you get there with few losses.
This is very exiting and extremely educational for those of us who plan to breed Caktus pleco species Keep posting

[Cristoffer Forssander]

You have malaysian sandsnails right!???

Perhaps, next time, you can use a net or sand.

I decrease my losses of L240 and L241 with this setup.

Without anyting, I always has big losses of fry!

I cross my fingers for no more death!

Cristoffer

[ElTofi]

And the tragedy goes on



Every time I come into the fishroom, the same poor and desperating pictures comes to my eyes... It was probably the worst idea I've ever had to steal the eggs at this moment, even with the Crenicichla danger... I guess I would have had better results leaving Nature and Dad do the job by theirselves... Who said "you're always smarter based on someone else's experiences" ? That's why I share this tragedy with you... I hope you'll learn from my fucking stupidity... and won't ever do the same

The white spots you see here are the fresh hatched fry from this last night (Tuesday to Wednesday)... There are still around 30 which hatched those last 24 hours and seem to be allright... Plus a dozen "not hatched yet" eggs...

I feel so bad to be unable to stop this tragedy...

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Thats so sad to see!

My suggestion is to get the parents in to breeding condition again and put away the ch**lids!

Haven't it been the same problem with the Pseudacanthicus sp. `black`?
Would you say that L25 is more sensitive?

Hope the rest survives!

As I heard about Pseudacanthicus. Fry and eggs are problematic to rais atrificially. In Ingos latest book, he talks about this and how to prevent high death numbers. Is I'm said before. I have followd hes suggestions with Leporacanthicus with good result.

But of course, Mr Dad, would be the very best option!

You got them to breed onceand you will do it again!

Cristoffer

[Haavard Stoere]

I use a very small soft paintbrush(artistic) to separate dead eggs and bad fries from the healthy ones. All the dead stuff is then removed with a large syringe.

I still believe you will get some from this batch to survive.