Microsyno breeding project

[Birger]

The other day there was a post looking for an identification on some Microsynodontis sp.1...I mentioned during my reply I had some and that they had not bred for me..yet...the very next day I spotted eggs!!

So I will relate what I have done so far...

I have tried all the usual things before but always had kept the group together.

About eight weeks ago I transferred a male and female of

Microsynodontis sp(1)

into a 60cm x 30cm x 38cm high tank.

Food has been NLS 1mm sinking pellets,NLS .5 mm grow(higher protein), frozen bloodworms, moquito larvae and mysis shrimp.one or the other was fed once a day late in the evening.

Temperature 25 C
PH 7.8
GH 140 mg/L
KH 80 mg/L
Sand substrate
3 overturned flowerpot bases with holes cut into them
A homemade egg collecting pot with a screened bottom with a sprig of anubias
Filter is a HOB Aquaclear 70(the old 300)

The egg collecting pot was made to collect eggs if they were to go in and scatter them into the plants. Instead two eggs were seen attached onto the roots(do not bother looking for the eggs they are not in this picture)

After a usual 50% weekly water change on sunday with tap water, on monday morning spotted the male in the plant container when I turned the lights on and also noticed a yellow egg...was on my way to work so I chased him out of the container and left it until later as I knew they(the fish) would stay hidden most of the day.

Later in the day I investigated as I was not positive I saw an egg but I spotted two yellow eggs attached to the anubias roots in different places and one had fallen through the screen and was fungused on the bottom.
Due to messin around making sure that is what they were I damaged the eggs and lost them(no pictures sorry).

I had an idea what the eggs would look like and what color as I had checked on a female that I had lost.

I do not think the barometric pressure was a factor but the weather has been bouncing around quite a bit lately.

I am going to continue what I have been doing and hope more eggs are deposited.

More anubius will be added so there is a bigger bundle of roots and make it not so easy to get around in...in case the male was still in there looking to eat eggs when I had disturbed it in the morning.

The female obviously is still laden with eggs.

It seems to me like these are more like killi fish where they may place only a few here and there instead of scattering them as many syno's would...but this is only a theory on my part going by what I have seen so far.
Or maybe that morning I disturbed them, hard to say.

I hope to be able to post more soon and will update this thread if that time comes.

Birger

One more thing that most likely should not be related, when I did the waterchange I had just (accidentally) run out of conditioner so water went straight in from the tap...no conditioner.

[Birger]

Female

[Birger]

Male

[andywoolloo]

wow! cool! How smart is your egg collecting pot!

Those are very synos!

[Richard B]

keep going Birger - it sounds like you are almost at the finishing post after a long race,.....

[sidguppy]

wow!

grats on coming so far!

have you tried varying the temperature?
like letting it run up to 27-28'C slowqly, then siphoning about 1/4-1/3rd out of the tank and adding cooler water with a plantwatering thingy?

hence imitating rain? works with many riverine cats.

it's both the cooling trick, the addition of softer mineral poor water and the rainy shower; adding through a hose is no good, it must be a shower.

collect rainwater, put it in a barrel with a carbonstuffed pantyhose sock to rid pollution and use it as "imitation rain".

the rainwater can be 2-4'c colder than the tankwater.

it might trigger a mass spawn.

[Birger]

have you tried varying the temperature?
like letting it run up to 27-28'C slowqly, then siphoning about 1/4-1/3rd out of the tank and adding cooler water with a plantwatering thingy?

hence imitating rain? works with many riverine cats.

it's both the cooling trick, the addition of softer mineral poor water and the rainy shower; adding through a hose is no good, it must be a shower.

I tried just about everything back when I had the whole group together they may have been spawning even back then but I never saw any eggs.

With this pair I had planned to start with a stable environment and then start to make changes as I went along.I will go with what I have been doing for a week or two more.

Next step would be to split them up for a week with a divider let the temp.creep up and combine the two after a water change.

After that I will divide them again let the temp creep up again and combine a week later together with a soft and cool water change.

That is my plan...so far

Birger

[jippo]

Very nice project Birger. Just let us know how this one goes on. Some day i have to try this same with my Mochokiella.

[Humunuku]

Any progress on these?

[Birger]

Any progress on these?

Funny you should ask today, I will let you know through this week...

I had some other fish in with this pair for a few weeks and let things build up...but those fish are now out...I have been doing a number of 25% water changes throughout the afternoon today and if need be tomorrow will see more....we will see what happens this week.

Humunuku I see you have a few as well...how old are yours and what conditions do you have yours in?



Birger

[Humunuku]

I have ten of these, or at least that's what i like to think as I rarely se more than four or five togheter at the same time. I've only had them for about three months, so I don't know their age, but I got them through my LFS in two batches of five specimens from nordic importer Imazo. Their size ranges from aprox. <3 to <5 cm. As they most propably are wild caught they may all be of different age.
I feed them live BBS, frosen artemia, cyclops and various tablets.
Their tankmates are Microctenopoma ansorgii and Aplocheilichthys normani.
64-litre tank, old Rena Internal filter, 13-watt T5, aeration while lighting-hours, temp =>24C (these days 27-28C), pH 6,7, KH 4, GH 4, fine sand substrate, catappaleaves, asian bogwood, african termite bogwood, carbonized bamboo-pipes and various plants and javamoss.

[jippo]

How is it going with your breeding project? Any success?

[Birger]

How is it going with your breeding project? Any success?

No...not that I have seen. I am leaving them alone again, that is when I made the most progress, but I am thinking I may not see anything again until February or March they do not seem to be as active as they were during those months.

I was just looking at My Cats and I have had these now for 5 years and seven months, not a bad stretch of time for such a small fish.
I do not have the whole group anymore as I lost some due to an incident last year which included another pair, the male and female which have pictures in the species page.


Birger

[nvcichlids]

Nice report!

I am still awaiting my group to come in (ordered them and they went on back order after I submitted my order with payment . I had ordered a group of 6 for my 20 gallon long West African Tank, but looks like its all on hold for the time being.

[Birger]

An update:

Same pair...After a few months of the male basically hiding off by himself he is now hanging around the female....coincidence? Hard to say.

I have had them in the similar setup as at the beginning of this thread but have way more Anubis and Java fern in with them.

I am also going to use apistomaster's trick and have a handful of the ceramic cylinders sometimes used in filters under the plants.

They also have so far gone 3 weeks without water changes and I am going to do nothing but top off for another 3 or 4 weeks as I slowly increase the temperature.
I will continue feedings with NLS grow, bloodworms amd mysis, the female is already huge bellied but I do not want her to get too big(I think?).

After that time I will increase water turnover and do a number of massive water changes and drop the temperature.

The only other inhabitants at the moment are 3 pairs of young adult Killi's.

I think one tricky part is keeping them away from their own eggs, I am considering rotating the plants to another empty tank.

I am setting them up so they will hopefully spawn in february/March.

So it begins again for this year.

Opinions welcome.

Birger

[DJ-don]

good luck birger!!!!
hope it turns out well
maybe you could try gettign a different type of high protein food, maybe to mix it up???
personally i would go what your going for a few weeks and maybe the next week change it with live food?
im no pro with any african species but just suggesting some thing that might work
never hurt to experiment a bit (i emphasise the BIT- aexperimenting alot could kill )

best of luck!!

[naturalart]

Great project Birger, They remind me of miniature S. shoutedeni's. Maybe you could reintroduce the remaining school of fish. This could stimulate some activity?

But I think I agree with you that you may not see any activity for the next month or so. Crossing my fingers for you.

[Birger]

Maybe you could reintroduce the remaining school of fish. This could stimulate some activity?

It could, my thinking is I need to minimize the possibility of eggs being eaten, I had tried with all together but I am sure if any eggs were produced they were eaten just as fast.

Birger

[naturalart]

Yeah, that is a dilemma. Maybe keep the new fish behind a divider? Just a thought.