Urgent Help Needed

Kat · Post by **Kat** » 10 Jan 2004, 04:24

OK I'll try to make this long story as short as I can. Ugg. OK about 4 months ago I discovered a white film over one of the eyes of my Catfish (I have two), they are African Psynodontis (sorry don't know the correct spelling offhand) in a 55 Gallon tank, just the two of them in the tank. Well I discovered that somebody had unplugged the heater! Had no idea how long it had been unplugged. I do not do water changes that often because its only two fish, probably once every two months, but I'm always adding in water that evaporates regularly. So when I saw the white film, I put the heater back on, added some Doc Wellfish Aquarium Salt, did a water change, waited two days, changed the filter cartridges (3). It worked, film went away. Well, it has returned with a vengeance, I wish I had noticed it earlier when it was in the early stages, I have a lot of PVC pipes in the tank, fish love them, but also hang out in them so you can't see them. When I finally did notice it had returned (only the same one fish, other is fine) it was horrendous. White film very thick on one eye, the other was covered as well but not as bad. Also the body had some white spots on it in areas, close together in patches.

I went to the Pet Store and was recommended Kanacyn (Aquatronics). You put it in every other day three times. Well the little white spots turned into these big white furry patches, I could not tell if that was it getting better or worse! Eyes really didn't look better either, just furrier. So back I go after the 3 day treatment to the Pet Store, but get this different guy to talk to. He tells me to use another medicine that is made by the same company, Ampicillex. He tells me that it always "looks worse while it is getting better." He also tells me it is OK to just put the Ampicellex right into the tank straight away, as a day had gone by since my last medicine dose of the Kanacyn. ask him if I should wait before adding different medicine (Ampicellex), or take out the Kanacyn first with carbon, he says nope. So I went home and put in the first dose of Ampicellex, and yesterday, a day and a half later, I put in my 2nd dose of Ampicillex. I just don't see any changes! The furry spots are still there, and one eye looks slightly better but the bad one looks horrendous, popeye for sure now on top of the fungus fur.

Before I continue I must make a confession. I haven't checked the PH in quite a while, and when I read your stickied posts above "read before posting", I decided to. Oh man the PH is so low I can't believe it. I don't understand it because the water here where I live is pretty high PH, maybe the medicine took it down? I didn't think I need to use chemicals here to keep the PH up (just moved to a new area). So I at this moment am in the process of slowly bringing it up, it is totally yellow in the test, incredibly acidic. I had no idea and I'm glad at least I found this site and read that which prompted me to check it. I cannot tell you what the ammonia or nitrite/nitrate is at, as I ran out of tester pills for that.

The tank temp I have at about 81 right now.

Do you think the reason this medicine hasn't been working is because of the PH being so low? Also do you think this fungus thrives on low PH? I feel happy to have at least found one problem I know I can fix (the PH, and I have Tank Hard so will check the hardness as well), because I am at my wits end. I've spent quite a lot on these medications lately, and also bought a new air pump as well, and I see very little, if any, improvement in my catfish.

I was so ready to just slam carbon back into the filters a little while ago to take the meds out, but maybe the PH is a problem so I will wait, should I? Tomorrow is supposed to be the last day of adding in Ampicillex, should I bother? I've had these two catfish for about 10 years. This is actually the first time one has been sick. He's such a fighter though, not sitting at the bottom of the tank to die, he's staying up and I really would like to fight for him and save him if I can if it is not too late. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

~Lady Z

Post by **Barbie** » 10 Jan 2004, 04:35

If it was me, I'd do a 20% water change on the tank, daily, until their water parameters stabilize and they aren't living in their own toxic waste dump... The pH has fallen due to the waste from the fish over the years. It doesn't go anywhere, it just sits there and concentrates until the acids can finally defeat the buffering capacity of the water and make it acidic. Knowing which Synodontis they are would help, but if they've lived for this long in your tap water, the water changes won't hurt them. I would stop medicating, personally, and improve their living conditions. Usually that will make a big difference in whether they can recover or not, IME.

Barbie

Kat · Post by **Kat** » 10 Jan 2004, 04:50

My instincts have been telling me to just forget the meds, because if they were going to work they would have by now, or made some significant difference, and they haven't, so something else has to be wrong.

Should I do a water change first and foremost, or just put carbon back into the filters to suck out the meds?

EDIT: I'll have to get back to you on the particular species my fish are, if it helps they are from Lake Malawi, black with very tall dorsal fins and lots of long whiskers.

EDIT EDIT: Using Sodium Bicarbonate I have been able to get the PH at acceptable levels again.

Post by **Barbie** » 10 Jan 2004, 04:55

The water change, daily, but not too large, 20% would be the most important step, IMO. The carbon won't hurt anything, and can be added at the same time, but the water changes will make more difference, IMO. I hope it helps him

Barbie

Kat · Post by **Kat** » 10 Jan 2004, 05:01

I thought that changing the filter cartridges at the same time as doing a water change was a no-no because it takes too much out of the beneficial bacteria?

Sorry I edited my post a few times and you probably didn't see my edits! I have the PH just about back again to normal levels using Sodium Bicarbonate (baking soda), i.e., its now mostly high in the lighter blues on the test. Fish look a bit more lively too! But the carbon will take out all these meds in the water..., which I am thinking may be best to do... so I just want to make sure what to do safely!

Post by **Silurus** » 10 Jan 2004, 05:07

I thought that changing the filter cartridges at the same time as doing a water change was a no-no because it takes too much out of the beneficial bacteria?

Actually, you've probably wiped out most of the beneficial bacteria using the antibiotic medications, so it doesn't really matter.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » 10 Jan 2004, 05:14

Ugg.

Wouldn't be surprised if all the beneficial bacteria was destroyed by these two meds I've used. They do seem to be pretty heavy duty antibiotics. Should I go out and buy some beneficial bacteria (the kind in the little yellow plastic container, and add it to the tank while trying to clean it up?

Also, if I do this, and just forget the meds and just focus on cleaning the tank, is there any type of chemical that I should use to help out? I.E., Stress Coat, or ShieldEx, etc., those chemicals that are supposed to soothe fish during stressful periods, etc.?

Post by **Barbie** » 10 Jan 2004, 05:15

I don't want you to take this wrong, but basically there's a chemical soup inside that glass box. Diluting it with fresh water will help your fish more than ANYTHING else you can dump in there. NEVER just dump baking soda into a tank, especially one with sick fish. It can jump the pH up drastically and its quite stressful for the fish. That is why I recommended only 20% water changes, to keep you from doing just what you did with the baking soda. Stop adding more things to the water and start taking some out. Your fish will thank you for it.

The only Synodontis from Lake Malawi is njassae, and they aren't black, so you might look through the catElog when you have a spare moment. For now, do a water change!

Barbie

Post by **Silurus** » 10 Jan 2004, 05:18

black with very tall dorsal fins

Sounds like .

Kat · Post by **Kat** » 10 Jan 2004, 05:26

OK, I will stop with the baking soda. I have only put it in it little bits throughout the evening, only because (A) it was before I came to this forum and got advice, and (B) the PH was so low it freaked me out and I felt I had to fix it immediately. Again, my sick catfish looks better atm, is more active and lively, I added baking soda at VERY small increments. The sick one is actually trying to eat this evening, which I haven't seen him do for days. So I feel it''s OK, but yes I will stop now, and start doing 20% water changes tomorrow (is after midnight here) and keep it up for a few days. Oh and put carbon back in.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » 10 Jan 2004, 05:29

Silurus wrote:
black with very tall dorsal fins
Sounds like
Synodontis eupterus
.

Looked at the pics in your link, and yes you are correct, that's what I have

Post by **Barbie** » 10 Jan 2004, 05:32

I honestly think you should go ahead and change 2 5 gallon buckets of water out this evening, then again tomorrow, not wait. I realize its late, but it would take 5 minutes and do 3 times the good all the stuff you've dumped in in the last few days... It's worth the effort.

Barbie

Kat · Post by **Kat** » 11 Jan 2004, 00:04

Well I've done a 20% water change. This time I made sure to lift all the rocks and pipes and clean underneath them (something I don't always do). I hope this helps. I haven't yet put in carbon though because I'm afraid that may be too much all at once? Perhaps do the carbon tomorrow? Or maybe out of the three filter cartridges, only put carbon in one for tonight? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I hope you all do not mind if I keep you updated, because if my fish's fungus doesn't leave his body, or God forbid gets worse, I'll need a plan B. I can't think what to do as a Plan B myself except for more medicine (but I won't use those two kinds again, they just didn't seem to make much of an improvement after using them for over a week).

Thanks guys for all your suggestions so far

Kat · Post by **Kat** » 11 Jan 2004, 04:51

Not the best picture, but here is what my fish looks like at this moment, unfortunately this bigger white spots are on his other side, but he would not cooperate with me and pose. But you can see a few of the spots and see how bad his one eye is:

Post by **Barbie** » 11 Jan 2004, 05:18

The picture doesn't work...

Add the carbon, it won't "change" the water parameters drastically, but it COULD help them...Water changes and concentrating on REMOVING the water they're in and replacing it with fresh needs to be your most important order of business.

If the spots really are fungus, you can net the fish and treat the spots with iodine on a swab, to prevent polluting their water any more.

Barbie

Kat · Post by **Kat** » 11 Jan 2004, 06:33

http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/ladyzekke/catfish6.jpg

Maybe the link will work instead.

OK I'll put in carbon then, thanks Barbie

How long do these types of catfish live btw? Just curious. Maybe Zedd is considered old at ten years, I have no idea.

Post by **Silurus** » 11 Jan 2004, 07:19

How long do these types of catfish live btw?

This gives you an idea.

Urgent Help Needed

Urgent Help Needed

Thanks Barbie